281 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 April 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

It's Imperius.

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up for me.
Man I despise the use of alts, just seems shifty to me but whatever. (Also partly because I haphazardly built up my entire mech inventory on one account, so some envy I guess due to the backwards structure of the game.)

@Diabedus alt super dude - Nope don't care.

I love the Piranha just as I hate the Wolfhound :-D

[Bud Crue]

JackalBeast, on 04 April 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up for me.
Man I despise the use of alts, just seems shifty to me but whatever. (Also partly because I haphazardly built up my entire mech inventory on one account, so some envy I guess due to the backwards structure of the game.)

@Diabedus alt super dude - Nope don't care.

I love the Piranha just as I hate the Wolfhound :-D

Probably also worth noting in this context, that posting as an Alt is technically a violation of the COC according to the Community Manager. Just sayin.

[Villainy]

Battlemaster56, on 04 April 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Dedicated knife fighting lights like the cheetah for example will easily beat a PIR1 between two evenly skill players, mediums generally laugh at lights as they're mobile enough to keep up with lights, especially the PIR. Intelligent (key word) Assaults can survive long enough for his buddies come to chase off the PIR, or have arm mounted weapons to defend themselves from such a "menace".

And the PIR have the same odds as their opponent to outplay or outsmart them, or generally out beat them in a fight. And the PIR is not a jack of all trades, a jack of all trade mech is the Timberwolf as it can generally do any role you built it, the PIR it's fairly limited to hunter, skirmisher, or knife fighter( best variants imo 2,3,A, Cipher).

I think it time for PGI to just give the low tier whiners the hand actually listen to reasonable players.

Not that I completely disagree, but you're judging the PIR's ability to be countered with multiple people. While, yes, MWO is a team-based game, more often than not you're not with a group of people you can reliably depend on. You're playing with random pugs and potatoes that rarely will respond to your console help call, comms, or in game chat. Yes, an assault could put his back to cover and fire at the PIR and hope backup comes, but more often than not, you're very, very dead long before any light can be bothered to stop harassing that assault that's nearly already legged them.

You can't judge the subjective performance of a single mech against the possibility of a group effort. You're already proving my point; solo the PIR is stronger than any other "specialist" mech.
So sure, a specialized knife fighter might take it down.
Or a fast moving, vomit medium (few and far between for both) may be a good fight.
Or possibly a smart PIR.

But no other single mech in all it's variant's require such lengths to defeat it. Even the "Fearsome Annihilator" doesn't have so many dependent variables. The Piranha IS over powered, in that it is capable of fulfilling multiple specializations with no penalty to itself.

I pilot Locusts over 60% of the time. And I realize a locust is strapping a bomb to my chair and waiting to explode. But people cite the locust's speed as it's ability to get away, but most well built Piranha's travel nearly as fast as my PB, 165.4, or negligibly slower, with longer ranged, high crit, high damage weapons spraying at said locust. On top of which, they have more armor, more weapons, more structure, and comparable speeds.

That's the very meaning of OP. Overshadowing multiple roles and specialties with a single entity.

I do think some of the gnashing of teeth over the Piranha specifically is a little ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact the PIR DOES need some balancing.

Edited by Villainy, 04 April 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Villainy, on 04 April 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

I do think some of the gnashing of teeth over the Piranha specifically is a little ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact the PIR DOES need some balancing.

Some balancing *Hands Balance guy sledge hammer ... go to town buddy*

[Nightbird]

Villainy, on 04 April 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Not that I completely disagree, but you're judging the PIR's ability to be countered with multiple people. While, yes, MWO is a team-based game, more often than not you're not with a group of people you can reliably depend on. You're playing with random pugs and potatoes that rarely will respond to your console help call, comms, or in game chat. Yes, an assault could put his back to cover and fire at the PIR and hope backup comes, but more often than not, you're very, very dead long before any light can be bothered to stop harassing that assault that's nearly already legged them.

You can't judge the subjective performance of a single mech against the possibility of a group effort. You're already proving my point; solo the PIR is stronger than any other "specialist" mech.
So sure, a specialized knife fighter might take it down.
Or a fast moving, vomit medium (few and far between for both) may be a good fight.
Or possibly a smart PIR.

But no other single mech in all it's variant's require such lengths to defeat it. Even the "Fearsome Annihilator" doesn't have so many dependent variables. The Piranha IS over powered, in that it is capable of fulfilling multiple specializations with no penalty to itself.

I pilot Locusts over 60% of the time. And I realize a locust is strapping a bomb to my chair and waiting to explode. But people cite the locust's speed as it's ability to get away, but most well built Piranha's travel nearly as fast as my PB, 165.4, or negligibly slower, with longer ranged, high crit, high damage weapons spraying at said locust. On top of which, they have more armor, more weapons, more structure, and comparable speeds.

That's the very meaning of OP. Overshadowing multiple roles and specialties with a single entity.

I do think some of the gnashing of teeth over the Piranha specifically is a little ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact the PIR DOES need some balancing.

The post you quoted says most mechs can beat the Piranha 1 on 1. This is true, unless you a LRM boat.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 04 April 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

The post you quoted says most mechs can beat the Piranha 1 on 1. This is true, unless you a LRM boat.

seems like there are a bunch of pilots on here that need some.. schooling... git it?

[Villainy]

Grus, on 04 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

seems like there are a bunch of pilots on here that need some.. schooling... git it?

Bad joke is really bad.

The post I quoted stated a knife fighter could easily handle it, or a larger medium, though I can't count the number of times I watch mediums fail to counter the fury of the 12 MGs.
Dedicated LRM boats deserve to die if they're isolated and get picked off by a PIR. That's good gameplay.

But most Lights are not dedicated knife fighters, and they lose to the PIR pretty commonly.
But Mediums aren't traveling at ~100 kph and commonly get schooled by a PIR.
But most Heavies get taken out from behind by a PIR.
But most Assaults aren't always in a position to sit and wait for backup.

Don't you think that's far too many "Buts" for a single mech to have attributed to it? I'm not talking about tier 1 pilots either, because the majority of the player base is the target demographic and they are not Tier 1 pilots.

[Mystere]

Dogstar, on 04 April 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

So I just had two matches with Piranhas. In the first my Nova had both legs chewed off in maybe 10 seconds - 40 armour+structure x2. Now I was out of position and on my own but not in an assault mech.

You had 10 seconds to kill a Piranha face-tanking you and you failed?

What was your Nova's load out?

[Nightbird]

But lights built to knife fight will usually beat a Piranha
But mediums built to brawl will usually beat a P
But heavies and assaults that are not erll or lrm boats and paying attention can usually beat a Piranha

Unless you are saying cored out heavies and assaults need to win against a light designed to beat cored out mechs, or that a clise range light should lose against long range lights and mediums, Piranhas are fine.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Speaking of PIRs, I saw one last night literally disintegrate when an assault nailed it with a pair of LB20s. One second mostly fresh, next second pieces scattered across a good 30m of hillside.

That's why it's okay for them to be good in marginal situations, a competent player facing them (or a bad player in the cockpit) means a quick death.

[James Argent]

Villainy, on 04 April 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

Bad joke is really bad.

Don't you think that's far too many "Buts" for a single mech to have attributed to it?

Are you saying there's something fishy going on here?

[A1Ste4kSauce]

Dogstar, on 04 April 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

So I just had two matches with Piranhas. In the first my Nova had both legs chewed off in maybe 10 seconds - 40 armour+structure x2. Now I was out of position and on my own but not in an assault mech. In that same time I got off two 6xERML shots which of course had very little effect. Now I'm merely an average pilot at best but if average pilots can't even take them on 1-2-1 in a medium clan mech then they're starting to look pretty OP.

I did this same exact thing to a nova with my myst lynx one time. He was alone and an just ran circles in him. He dinged me up pretty good but I was better. Sorry but a lot of it is pilot skill and your positioning. He out played you and fought you in a situation that favored HIM. Good Light pilots play dirty, they aren't op, just smart. Yet people just whine and whine because a tiny light killed them. Mechwarrior is balanced so that mechs can 1v1 other weight classes, but with more firepower and armor to the upper weights. Stay with the team and stop complaining about a situational mech.

[Dogstar]

Mystere, on 04 April 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

You had 10 seconds to kill a Piranha face-tanking you and you failed?

What was your Nova's load out?

I did point out that I'm merely an average pilot who'd made a positioning mistake.

It's a 6xERML build and I didn't get a clean burn on either of the shots I took - average skills again

and it's not like he was face tanking me he was moving around a lot but keeping his weapons concentrated on my legs.

Goes back to my point about it being situational, but any mech that gives you absolutely no room to make a mistake when fighting it is pretty much a definition of OP

Edited by Dogstar, 04 April 2018 - 11:53 AM.

[Nightbird]

Dogstar, on 04 April 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

I did point out that I'm merely an average pilot who'd made a positioning mistake.

It's a 6xERML build and I didn't get a clean burn on either of the shots I took - average skills again

and it's not like he was face tanking me he was moving around a lot but keeping his weapons concentrated on my legs.

Goes back to my point about it being situational, but any mech that gives you absolutely no room to make a mistake when fighting it is pretty much a definition of OP

Well, a 6erml nova.... you lost the fight in the mechlab, not on the battlefield. Try 10spl+4mg novas

[kuma8877]

Villainy, on 04 April 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Not that I completely disagree, but you're judging the PIR's ability to be countered with multiple people. While, yes, MWO is a team-based game, more often than not you're not with a group of people you can reliably depend on. You're playing with random pugs and potatoes that rarely will respond to your console help call, comms, or in game chat. Yes, an assault could put his back to cover and fire at the PIR and hope backup comes, but more often than not, you're very, very dead long before any light can be bothered to stop harassing that assault that's nearly already legged them.

You can't judge the subjective performance of a single mech against the possibility of a group effort. You're already proving my point; solo the PIR is stronger than any other "specialist" mech.
So sure, a specialized knife fighter might take it down.
Or a fast moving, vomit medium (few and far between for both) may be a good fight.
Or possibly a smart PIR.

But no other single mech in all it's variant's require such lengths to defeat it. Even the "Fearsome Annihilator" doesn't have so many dependent variables. The Piranha IS over powered, in that it is capable of fulfilling multiple specializations with no penalty to itself.

I pilot Locusts over 60% of the time. And I realize a locust is strapping a bomb to my chair and waiting to explode. But people cite the locust's speed as it's ability to get away, but most well built Piranha's travel nearly as fast as my PB, 165.4, or negligibly slower, with longer ranged, high crit, high damage weapons spraying at said locust. On top of which, they have more armor, more weapons, more structure, and comparable speeds.

That's the very meaning of OP. Overshadowing multiple roles and specialties with a single entity.

I do think some of the gnashing of teeth over the Piranha specifically is a little ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact the PIR DOES need some balancing.

The PB and the PIR variants are NOT competing at the same role, just because the loadout utilizes MGs. If I want to specifically go after PIR in a LCT, I'll hunt it with my 1E, and fully expect to be able to take that mech out all things being equal. He can't outrun me, and the only time he outguns me is when I let him get too close. Locust 1E OP!!

[Dogstar]

Nightbird, on 04 April 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

Well, a 6erml nova.... you lost the fight in the mechlab, not on the battlefield. Try 10spl+4mg novas

It's a triple AMS Nova, and stop being so condescending

Edited by Dogstar, 04 April 2018 - 12:04 PM.

[kuma8877]

Dogstar, on 04 April 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

It's a triple AMS Nova, and stop being so condescending

It's not necessarily condescending if it's true. The cycle rate on the ERML's is very long when you are taking damage the whole time. If you snuff some of those shots you're stuck waiting again and the PIR (or any light with quick firing weapons) gets to take advantage in the meantime. Having more quick recycling weapons would've probably made mincemeat out of an average pilot in a PIR.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Dogstar, on 04 April 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

It's a triple AMS Nova, and stop being so condescending

That wasn't condescending in the slightest. cMLas have the third longest cycle time of any energy weapon in the game, edged out only by HMLas and HLLas. They also have one of the worst heat ratios of any energy weapon. And you're mounting a handful of them on a 'mech designed to boat large numbers of smaller lasers.

If you're really desperate to run triple AMS, you're way better off doing it on a cutefox, since they're smaller, faster, and have high energy mounts (if you buy the Purifier, which is IMO well worth it).

I mean unless the MLas 3x AMS Nova is still on the trial 'mech rotation, in which case that would explain it.

[Nightbird]

Nova with low slung arms is also terrible at mid range trading. Lose every time against ebons, hellbringers, grasshoppers warhammer...etc

Edit.. feel free to disagree, it's the internet, who is right and wrong will be proven on the battlefield

Edited by Nightbird, 04 April 2018 - 12:52 PM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:59 PM.