281 replies to this topic

[yrrot]

20 damage doesn't instakill a PIR's side torso unless the AC/20 crits. It has 10 internal structure + the 16 armor.

[VitriolicViolet]

Ah this yet again. Having read the thread i can concede that maybe reducing crit chance on MGs would be fine but no other nerfs to Mgs or lights at all. As others have said its a mech which punishes you for every mistake, if you choose to not mount arm weapons than frankly you should lose to lights (especially considering virtually every mech in the game apart from most Cicadas can mount arm weapons) Also the amount of people who essentially suck at piloting assaults is quite high, people who just spin on the spot and lose, never unlock their arms, design their whole mech around cracking other fatties without consideration for lights, never back into a wall to limit firing lines, hang back 500m away from everyone else usin gauss, LLs, LRMs.

If you do any of these things then you are already crippling yourself against lights, it really isnt hard to kill them. I know anecdotes are useless but i killed a Piranha a Locust and half a Panther by myself in a Highlander on HPG the other day, Vaporised both the 20 tonners and most of the Panther before some heavies took me out. Its all in how you build and play. AC20 and 3 ASRM6s and a SNPPC will delete light mechs and most anything else.

One of the only assaults i have trouble with lights in is one of my Highlanders but that is my fault as its built to out DPS most other mechs in the game, 12.47 (29.00) DPS. the only effective arm weapon is one RL20, it gets beaten by lights if im not with the group but destroys other assaults. As such it struggles to win even a 1v1 with most lights, primarily torso mounted weapons, the only arm weps are the RL20 and RAC5 and RAC2.

TL:DR So id say nerfing crit-chance for MGs should help a bit but it really is about how you build and play. Lights in general need a fairly significant buff frankly, either shrink some of them a little (Firestarter and Panther anyone?) or add armor quirks to all lights. Also before someone tries to claim it i dont pilot lights, out of all my games i have about 7% in lights and most games in assaults.

[Darian DelFord]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 03 April 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Because someone over nerfed my fun. It’s been going on far too long so I expect the flip side to get the same treatment using the same reasons and logic. That’s why I’m posting here.

Basically since that junky update called the skill tree this game has been pretty much “not fun” that simple.

Only one mech can boat 12MG (PGI nerf logic 1)
The PIR-1 has zero heat penalties for it. (PGI nerf logic 2)
This variant makes other lights useless and the IS has no counter to it. (PGI nerf logic 3)
PGI doesn’t like boating (PGI nerf logic 4)

So basically one of two nerfs will happen. Ghost Heat after 8MG ( best option brings it inline with other mechs in its class), or removing / lowering the MG crit chance (bad option hurts a weak weapon)

The junky update you call a skill tree hit lights just as hard as it hit other mechs. IMHO the only to fix that is to do a skill tree for each variant. This one skill tree for each weight class is for the birds and really does not come into play since it affects everyone just like the rescale affected everyone and hit lights the hardest.

The problem with putting MG's on the ghost heat scale is really simple. You will put those chassis into the ground and here is why. You have to hold down the button to fire them. its NOT a fire and forget like other weapon systems so there will be no fire 8 wait half a second fire the other 4. MG"s will not work that way and hence GH will literally make the variants obsolete. The MG's really aren't that OP against armor. The main beef that I am getting is once they are cored.... which guess what..... is the whole reason MG's exist.... they is their primary target..... structure.

And BTW stop stating the IS has no counters for the piranah, those kinds of statements are why I called into question how long have you actually been playing.

An Oxide specced specifically for ligh hunting can and will destroy a piranha. I know this because I did it all tonight and will upload those tomorrow night when I get home from school.....Also you have multiple mediums that can deal with the light problem..... Mediums are suppose to be the light hunter. But don't sit there and state a fact that is completely and utterly false, much like most of the statements about the mech in question in this thread

Once again the elephant in the room is simple...... Assaults gimp themselves against lights for more PEW PEW and less defense and then when a light finds them they can not defend themselves. This is NOT the lights fault. This has happened in EVERY video I have seen, yet not one video have I found or been shown shows a piranha taking on 2 assault mechs and winning. I mean according to some in this thread they can take on 2 or 3 mechs and dance out with 3 kills and no damage to themselves.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 03 April 2018 - 05:52 PM.

[Dee Eight]

JackalBeast, on 03 April 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

You must have another account, as it says you've been a member since Jan of 2016. Closed beta was ~5 years prior.
Not that I care, just seems not true.

well its not zuul... the dates don't line up.

LT. HARDCASE, on 03 April 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

Half of the 1,000 damage comes from the strike, a fact which has been pointed out to you way too many times now in multiple threads. It's time to stop feigning ignorance.

Ammo explosions add to damage totals do they not ?

[justcallme A S H]

Holy Jackson, on 03 April 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

my beef with the piranha is putting full alphas into them and having them show little effect. Compared to a mist lynx, those are tanky little ********.

I feel like their hit reg is wonky.

Remember stripped arms, blown off, reduce damage when shielding. Plus hitboxes.

No different to a Commando... Ever had a Commando hump your leg in an Assault? Trust me it's as infuriating as a PIR and there is little you can do about it.

But then there are 11 mechs in your team, they are meant to help - use comms or simply don't get into a position that lets you be caught out in the first place, this is the main issue - players derp out and blame everything but themselves when they are the problem.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 03 April 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

You must have another account, as it says you've been a member since Jan of 2016. Closed beta was ~5 years prior.
Not that I care, just seems not true.

It's Imperius.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Darian DelFord, on 03 April 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

The junky update you call a skill tree hit lights just as hard as it hit other mechs. IMHO the only to fix that is to do a skill tree for each variant. This one skill tree for each weight class is for the birds and really does not come into play since it affects everyone just like the rescale affected everyone and hit lights the hardest.

The problem with putting MG's on the ghost heat scale is really simple. You will put those chassis into the ground and here is why. You have to hold down the button to fire them. its NOT a fire and forget like other weapon systems so there will be no fire 8 wait half a second fire the other 4. MG"s will not work that way and hence GH will literally make the variants obsolete. The MG's really aren't that OP against armor. The main beef that I am getting is once they are cored.... which guess what..... is the whole reason MG's exist.... they is their primary target..... structure.

And BTW stop stating the IS has no counters for the piranah, those kinds of statements are why I called into question how long have you actually been playing.

An Oxide specced specifically for ligh hunting can and will destroy a piranha. I know this because I did it all tonight and will upload those tomorrow night when I get home from school.....Also you have multiple mediums that can deal with the light problem..... Mediums are suppose to be the light hunter. But don't sit there and state a fact that is completely and utterly false, much like most of the statements about the mech in question in this thread

Once again the elephant in the room is simple...... Assaults gimp themselves against lights for more PEW PEW and less defense and then when a light finds them they can not defend themselves. This is NOT the lights fault. This has happened in EVERY video I have seen, yet not one video have I found or been shown shows a piranha taking on 2 assault mechs and winning. I mean according to some in this thread they can take on 2 or 3 mechs and dance out with 3 kills and no damage to themselves.

What IS mech can take 12MG?

You’re right counter was the wrong word choice.

Let me rephrase that.

Would you rather take a Piranha or a Pirates Bane?

I said counter and I should have said what IS mech can do the same thing. This is one of the reasons Chris nerfed a certain loadout I’ve used since the first clan mechs. His exact reasoning was the IS couldn’t bring the same loadout.

[Lethe Wyvern]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 03 April 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

What IS mech can take 12MG?

What Clan mech can take 2HG?

Let me rephrase that.

Would you rather take a Dire Wolf or a Annihilator?

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 03 April 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Would you rather take a Piranha or a Pirates Bane?

And again. You want all equal mechs with equal tech and hardpoints/quirks? Like clons or what? If they wipe out Clans and give to all of us only IS mechs you will be crying about IS lights, right?

[kuma8877]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 03 April 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

What IS mech can take 12MG?

You’re right counter was the wrong word choice.

Let me rephrase that.

Would you rather take a Piranha or a Pirates Bane?

I said counter and I should have said what IS mech can do the same thing. This is one of the reasons Chris nerfed a certain loadout I’ve used since the first clan mechs. His exact reasoning was the IS couldn’t bring the same loadout.

Why does an IS light need to take 12 MGs to be effective on the same kill and damage ratio as the PIR? Would you take any 4 MG light (IS or Clan) and expect that to be the most deadly part of the loadout? I can take out my 1E and put up decent numbers easily enough (close enough to the PIR), others do fine in the PB. While I can agree that the IS could use a better direct mission type competitor to it, the PIR is not intrinsically OP and neither are the MGs when properly accounted for, even in solo QP.

You don't see me or other PIR pilots complaining about the big 'ol Medium, Heavy and Assault mechs that generally carry enough ordnance to nuke us to orbit twice (from across the map), do you? Because that's generally the case on the battlefield and the risk of running a PIR. Maybe we should buff lights in general and have more viable chassis/weapons overall rather than call to nerf something you can easily learn to counter with a little actual effort.

My first match tonight was 61 dam 1 kill early game evaporation... am I calling to nerf what killed me or thinking about how to not get in that situation again? It won't happen again.

Edited by kuma8877, 03 April 2018 - 08:54 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Mystere, on 03 April 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

In the early days of CW, some groups had a wave composed of lights. Quite a number of players were terrorized by them as a result.

However, the good players quickly learned to anticipate and deal with such a wave.

They may have now but they didn't in that game.. I believe they were just standard pre mades not top tier but i'd like to hear from you what is a good defence against 12 lights working as a team vs 12 mixed working as a team when each light destroys you in less than 2 seconds..

What would Mystere do to stem the machine gun lights... of various clan types?

[PocketYoda]

Darian DelFord, on 03 April 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

Please get your facts straight..... a Piranha CAN NOT instantly kill an armored opponent.... If you think so I suggest you sit in the front of an atlas and fire at his front CT and tell me how long it takes to kill him vs him killing you

Really can't huh...




Can't core undamaged mechs huh, this was the third undamaged mech in game he had destroyed..

Edited by Samial, 03 April 2018 - 09:04 PM.

[Mortalcoil]

I'm getting some serious deja vu from the summer of Kodiak.

Remember all the lul get good posts about how balanced the Kodiak was? I guess PGI disagreed with those people.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Samial, on 03 April 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Really can't huh...
Can't core undamaged mechs huh, this was the third undamaged mech in game he had destroyed..

Can I find out what you thought would happen in such a situation?

Bad builded mech with bad geometry, (i bet) without any torso twisting and lack of close combat wepps versus ultra close DD. Dunno how to deal with it.

edit. That Archer cant even shoot his 2 lazorz at once.

Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 03 April 2018 - 09:21 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Lethe Wyvern, on 03 April 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

Can I find out what you thought would happen in such a situation?

Bad builded mech with bad geometry, (i bet) without any torso twisting and lack of close combat wepps versus ultra close DD. Dunno how to deal with it.

edit. That Archer cant even shoot his 2 lazorz at once.

Thats not my mech i was spectating.. i hate Archers and LRMs, that said it doesn't matter what the mech uses or is.. it was undamaged before the Piranha and not after in the front.. This was after it killed a mauler and a Catapult K2..

Edited by Samial, 03 April 2018 - 09:53 PM.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Lethe Wyvern, on 03 April 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

What Clan mech can take 2HG?

Let me rephrase that.

Would you rather take a Dire Wolf or a Annihilator?


And again. You want all equal mechs with equal tech and hardpoints/quirks? Like clons or what? If they wipe out Clans and give to all of us only IS mechs you will be crying about IS lights, right?

I want the same logic used to nerf what I played to be applied consistently. Or we can revert those mistakes. I doubt that will happen though.

Read my posts before assuming things. I’m not even complaining about lights I’m talking 12mg boating. I’m basically performing a checks and balances.

There has been many nerfs that have pretty much killed diversity and fun in this game. Since those nerfs won’t be lifted. I expect everything to be held to the gold standard of mediocrity that is now the “vision” of balance.

I bought a ton of popcorn because come the 17th there will be so many threads popping up you’ll think this game just came out again. Followed by the silence of the echo chamber we have all become accustomed to.

Read my post listing PGI nerf logic and tell me I’m wrong. Tell me that is not the standard practice.

Edited by DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, 03 April 2018 - 09:56 PM.

[Curccu]

Samial, on 03 April 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Thats not my mech i was spectating.. i hate Archers and LRMs, that said it doesn't matter what the mech uses or is.. it was undamaged before the Piranha and not after in the front.. This was after it killed a mauler and a Catapult K2..

Piranha was also almost undamaged and lost all it's CT armor by 2 medium lasers CHAINFIRED.
Let me guess LRM mauler and HPPC catapult without any weapons able to damage humping mech?

[justcallme A S H]

Samial, on 03 April 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Really can't huh...

Can't core undamaged mechs huh, this was the third undamaged mech in game he had destroyed..

The two screenshots you showed there is a FIVE second difference and the Catapult starts off with a yellow armour CT.

Come on man. Fake News right there.

[Dogstar]

Vizzini: INCONCEIVABLE LITERALLY

Inigo Montaya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Sniper09121986]

Samial, on 03 April 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

it doesn't matter what the mech uses or is..

Now that is pure gold. I mean, this game used to be competitive. And in comp games EVERYTHING matters. They are a big equation, and it is up to a good player to find one of its many solutions that would work for him. I agree that all mechs and weapons should have their uses in some situations, but if you seriously intend to make them all equal in EVERY situation then that way can only take this game (the poster of BT franchise) in one direction.

Now, your time has come
Another Puglet for the thrill
Hide and peeking come again
Lucky to score a kill
No way to use your wits and strengths
Carry hard in vain
You will surely get reported
No-one gives a damn

When the balance changes
Then all is broken down
Thoughtful builds no longer useful
Nerfed into the ground
Mediocre is the norm
You cannot cut it short
Chickens teach the hen in this here
Brotherhood of derp

[Mystere]

Samial, on 03 April 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

They may have now but they didn't in that game.. I believe they were just standard pre mades not top tier but i'd like to hear from you what is a good defence against 12 lights working as a team vs 12 mixed working as a team when each light destroys you in less than 2 seconds..

What would Mystere do to stem the machine gun lights... of various clan types?

Is that a trick question or, worse, a thinly-veiled trap? I am asking because your mythical "2-second Piranha" is even more fantastical than the mythical "3-second Jenner" of the old days.

However, since I am feeling overly generous today, I will point you to what is hopefully the right direction: the United States Navy. Hopefully, they have already figured out the answer by now, other than changing the rules and thus fudging the results, of course.

Edited by Mystere, 04 April 2018 - 06:11 AM.