281 replies to this topic

[Grus]

I still don't understand why people wanna nerf a mech that has less armor than a wet paper bag.

[dario03]

Devilsfury, on 02 April 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

Everyone knows that its beyond broken but they wont nerf it until its out for C-bills, then and only then will they even think about nerfing. Only fan bois and whales say its not and its typically the same 10 guys that come on here and post otherwise.

You could say that about anything here and from either side of the fence.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Nerf situational awareness.

Literally just had a match where someone whined about lights in all-chat. Unsurprisingly, it was a LRMboat assault who sat 500m behind the rest of his team and repeatedly stood still long enough for multiple subsequent back shots.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Some people do consistently well in the piranha, really well.

But.... more often than not I see people doing sub 200 damage in them.

I think they are a bit OP, but when I see so many people doing terribly in them, do we balance around the top tier or lowest common denominator?

[Nightbird]

Jack Booted Thug, on 02 April 2018 - 06:17 PM, said:

Some people do consistently well in the piranha, really well.

But.... more often than not I see people doing sub 200 damage in them.

I think they are a bit OP, but when I see so many people doing terribly in them, do we balance around the top tier or lowest common denominator?

Come on now, you know the answer to that.

The number of WHINE THREADS!

[El Bandito]

Promessa, on 02 April 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

12 back armor buys you a full second

But then people will complain about huge alphas coring them from the front!

[N0MAD]

Yesterday on a game on Crimson, was in my Warhammer, 3x ERLL, 4x ERML, spot a Pir coming round mountain on railway tracks heading for tunnel opening, im behind a building, doesnt spot me, i move in to tracks get a nice alpha into its back, torso/arms go yellow, he suddenly stops, there is a fresh Warhawk facing the tunnel doesnt spot the PIR i let fly with a full alpha into the PIRs back as he starts unloading his MGs into WH back (we are both stoped) i get the full burn into its back , again we are both stoped, WH dies as my lasers are reloading, whats that a few seconds? he starts moving into tunnel i get another full alpha burn into his back as hes moving into tunnel, hes still only yellow on torso/arms.
2 very good burns on his back and the original burn that was good but he was moving and hes only yellow? while in a matter of 3-4 seconds hes killed a fresh assault with MG? what a joke.

[Dee Eight]

Racerxintegra2k, on 02 April 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

Is it time yet ?

Its time more assault pilots stopped wasting nodes in the mobility tree and instead invested in the seismic sensor nodes. Much more useful when you've stopped and are "Xing" away with whatever weapon allows you to not have kept up with the team, to know that someone is 200m behind and closing...than to try and turn with it. I had a match lastnight where the ANH-1X driver had gone into the mobility tree as far as one speed tweak node... but hadn't taken seismic. Great...so you can turn 20% faster...but 20% of crap isn't going to help against a light or medium mech, or even some heaviest.

[justcallme A S H]

Grus, on 02 April 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

I still don't understand why people wanna nerf a mech that has less armor than a wet paper bag.

The theme from the complainants is pretty simple, most of them just don't play well

Such people are usually;

• Low damage / poor aim
  
• Out of position / not with team
  
• Not aware of mini map and enemy locations
  
• Don't know how to properly torso twist/leg turn to shield back

Nerfing a mech because of someones inabilty to play against it is just not a good enough reason. I rarely have an issue with a PIR given one shot takes off the leg or as soon as it lines up a shot it is instantly CT killed in a single volley.

[Sjorpha]

It's not causing any problems in quickplay as far as I can see, usually produces pretty normal results.

It's not causing any problems in Faction play either, and I'd definitley know if it did, there are no really oppressive strategies involving mass Piranha waves or anything. Other mechs are much more prevalent. It's not that good in scouting because it's so easily countered with streaks.

I don't know about comp play, but i haven't really heard anything about the Piranha causing balance problems there.

So basically there are no evidence of balance issues with the Piranha yet, so no it's not time to call for any nerfs at this point. Maybe some reason to nerf it will surface down the line, for example if it's too strong for Solaris or something.

[Kiiyor]

JUST SHOOT THE BLOODY THINGS WHENEVER YOU SEE THEM LIKE YOU WOULD ANY OTHER HIGH THREAT MECH INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL THE END OF A MATCH WHEN YOU'VE BEEN GUTTED AND THEY'RE STILL GODDAMN FRESH AND IN THEIR GODDAMN ELEMENT OMG AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Bud Crue]

Whether anyone wants it or not, the Piranha is going to get nerfed.
Actually, Machine Guns will most likely be nerfed since they are the primary issue here; and that is how PGI roles nerf something that everyone might use because it is over performing on a single variant boating them (see the damage they did to UACs back in the height of the Kodiak 3 days; see also, the Gauss/PPC in the poptart heyday of the Night Gyr (though admittedly there where three other mechs effective with Gauss/PPC as well at thte time)) .

As to the Piranha, there can be no question, based on our collective in game experiences -however subjective they may be- that there are more Piranhas present than other lights, and that the Piranhas are overall out performing other lights -right now. If that is indeed the case, PGI will nerf the thing when it comes out for cbills or shortly there after. If it is only the P1 that is "over performing", then PGI might only hit that single variant (ala the Assassin 21's mild nerf) but more likely they will hit Machine Guns, which is a nerf to the P1 but also a nerf to every other MG toting mech in the game, but again, historically that is how PGI roles.

The only possible way that the Piranha overall avoids nerfs is if the data suggests the Locust remains on par with it, which then gives them an out comparatively, but I doubt that is the case. So in the end, I suspect that one way or another the nerf bat is falling on the Piranha and/or on Machine Guns. For good or ill, that is what will happen.

Edited by Bud Crue, 03 April 2018 - 01:46 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Sjorpha, on 03 April 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

It's not causing any problems in quickplay as far as I can see, usually produces pretty normal results.

It's not causing any problems in Faction play either, and I'd definitley know if it did, there are no really oppressive strategies involving mass Piranha waves or anything. Other mechs are much more prevalent. It's not that good in scouting because it's so easily countered with streaks.

I don't know about comp play, but i haven't really heard anything about the Piranha causing balance problems there.

So basically there are no evidence of balance issues with the Piranha yet, so no it's not time to call for any nerfs at this point. Maybe some reason to nerf it will surface down the line, for example if it's too strong for Solaris or something.

Agreed.

Occasionally one will get the jump on you, crit some weapons and generally lead to frustration but, that's the game. It takes a good pilot to know 'when' to strike as a light and so be it.

The main issue with the MGs is components health, totally different discussion and that relates to changes over 12 months ago that - in the current state of the game - should simply be undone. Not needing a mech or MGs blown to bits even further... But understanding cause/effects in big picture means you really gotta understand MWO... Many players do not.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 April 2018 - 01:48 AM.

[GweNTLeR]

Well, I' vote for nerfing piranha. A single fresh piranha can vipe out 2-3 cored mechs before killed. It is not really cool.In FW often used to wipe out cored dominating heavy/assault team(like a countermeasure, way too effective IMO).A nice way to do it could be some Accel/Decel nerf, so piranha become a real "a high risk high reward" mech.
I even think that every omnipod with 2+ ballistic hardpoint should get negative Accel/Decel quirks.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 03 April 2018 - 02:01 AM.

[Bud Crue]

GweNTLeR, on 03 April 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

Well, I' vote for nerfing piranha. A single fresh piranha can vipe out 2-3 cored mechs before killed. It is not really cool.In FW often used to wipe out cored dominating heavy/assault team(like a countermeasure, way too effective IMO).A nice way to do it could be some Accel/Decel nerf, so piranha become a real "a high risk high reward" mech.

Looking as far back as the Ember as a precedent and more recently mechs like the Night Gyr and the Kodiak, this is a pretty good guess at what they might do. Muck with its agility (that way they avoid the issue of nerfing machine guns) so that it can't dart around as well, or more likely make it so it can barely look up to nail targets in the back at close range. Again, there is precedent for how PGI breaks things, and I am betting they will break this pretty soon its just a question of which precedent they follow to determine exactly how it will be broken. My bet though is that they will hit machine guns again first (cuz hey lets punish everyone for one variant's ability to boat a weapon!), then hit its agility if their "data" indicates it is performing "above our internally established target values".

[Nema Nabojiv]

GweNTLeR, on 03 April 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

In FW often used to wipe out cored dominating heavy/assault team(like a countermeasure, way too effective IMO).

soo, it gets one wave to core the bad guys, and then another wave to kill them? So effective, much wow.

[El Bandito]

Don't nerf the Piranha, do something about MG's crit ability. Less crit in return for slightly more damage, perhaps. Cause right now having 20+ tons of weapons stripped in 2 seconds is not fun.

[GweNTLeR]

El Bandito, on 03 April 2018 - 02:01 AM, said:

Don't nerf the Piranha, do something about MG's crit ability. Less crit in return for slightly more damage, perhaps. Cause right now having 20+ tons of weapons stripped in 2 seconds is not fun.

12 mg=12 sustained dps without any compromises. It is a REALLY bad idea to boost it even further.

Nema Nabojiv, on 03 April 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

soo, it gets one wave to core the bad guys, and then another wave to kill them? So effective, much wow.

Losing 2-3 assaults to kill a cored team is a little different to losing 2-3 piranhas, you know.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 03 April 2018 - 02:06 AM.

[El Bandito]

GweNTLeR, on 03 April 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

12 mg=12 sustained dps without any compromises. It is a REALLY bad idea to boost it even further.

At least with crit reduced there will be enough room for counterplay.

[The Basilisk]

Darian DelFord, on 02 April 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

And this is the main point. Folks do not know how the numbers get generated. I have watched that video several times now and still have no clue how I got that much. But all Assaults and heavies see is a 20 ton mech kicking their arse and come to the forums to complain about it. When the majority of the time its their own dang fault.

Yes the Piranha is a strong light.... probably the strongest. Yet the other lights have been nerfed into the ground all because people have no situational awareness.

Actually it is the other way round.
It is the fault of the lights.
Scout class in Battletech has absolutely no place in an all out heavy Battlemech rumble.
A single hit from a large laser should be enough to cripple or even destroy all but most light/scout mechs.
Instead you can fire two ER PPC or even an AC20 into them and they just run along as if nothing happend most of the time.
In addition the fact that you can slap a bunch of firelighter smal lasers that are little more than dialed up comlasers or Infantery deterants and they just fuse together to become one mighty weaponsystem able to take on an Assault mech is beyond hillarious.

So...well yes lights in MWO are more than 10x more powerfull than they should be and that a mech like the piranha is able to do more than the 2.4dps it should be able to do with its 12 MGs and infact does 16.8dps without quirks and skills when using HMGs or still 12 dps when using standart MGs is just a bad joke.

Edited by The Basilisk, 03 April 2018 - 02:34 AM.