333 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

roekenny, on 05 April 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

Only if you show me a any player what has never been instagibbed by every weight class in every weight class they main in their career. Or do you think assaults are special?

So by that reasoning no light should have more than 4 hard points as it runs the risk of them been able to do some serious damage should they use their speed and maneuverability to flank a enemy and hit a well know vulnerability?

I'm saying we need more features to make available more options.

I don't believe I've ever stated in this thread that lights should be nerfed. Assaults should be able to see their feet, a lot of them SHOULD be allowed to rotate torsos faster and with more range as there are no rear firing weapons and no rear view options, and apparently aren't ever going to get any.

The light pilots then went into histrionics which I've been happy to help keep stirred up.

Quote

As for clip
I think he missed one alpha and fish was fresh, also I believe it was called out as he was expecting him and the fish had no clue was about to walk into a wall of pain (happens to the best of us.)

It looks like the first shot took off the left arm (hence the component destroyed), the next shot took off the right arm (hence the NEXT component destroyed), and the third shot finished it off (with help from two other 'mechs).

Had the Piranha came in from behind and shot the Cyclops' open rear torsos with those MG's and Flamer, I feel certain the story would have turned out differently.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 April 2018 - 12:03 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 05 April 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

To nitpick, the actual best DPS/ton in TT is the Heavy Small Laser at 12 DPT.

Woops, meant out of the ballistics.

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

I dunno, according to some of the arrogant light pilots here, there are no "good" assault players.

I dunno ANY assault player that can see behind him and through walls and terrain 100% of the time, and move at medium and light 'mech speeds (to always keep up with their own teams light and mediums) without hacks.

Show me an assault player that's NEVER been nearly instagibbed by a light and you'll probably be showing me an assault pilot who doesn't play very much, or at least play assaults very often...

In general assaults suffer from having the lowest skill portion of the playerbase as their pilots it would seem. About 90% of them just pick some random assault mech (usually a King Crab for whatever reason, I don't know what it is that brings so many people to buy that knuckle dragger) then throw together a build on it and just assume that because they're the heaviest mech on the field then they're the best mech on the field and then completely throw tactics to the wind even though the assault class relies heavily on your overall battle awareness.

So instead of hearing from good assault pilots like those in the world tournaments or high up on the leaderboard who have nothing to complain about since they can leverage every bit of worth from their weight, we mostly just hear about assault pilots who didn't have the situational awareness to see a light that was coming to backstab him, not just once, but so many times that it has become such a common problem for him that he has to go to the forum to demand lights be nerfed.

Assaults are the most powerful class with lights as the weakest.
https://docs.google....t#gid=792219336

Here's the stats, assaults have highest KD and win rate, lights have lowest. Its absolutely trivial to hold a KD of 1 in an assault mech since you can beat litterally any other mech in the match in a 1v1 based on the stats alone, yet for a light mech you're against all odds.

[Mainhunter]

Haha Yoki.... Hi killed my assault with his Piranha, i grabbed my streak boat and the very next map and the very first mech i met was he in his Piranha. 3 Alphas later and he was gone... bitter sweet revenge. Rock, paper, scissor....

[Krivvan]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

by that logic, can you show us a light pilot that's never been ("nearly") one shotted by assaults? I'm sure even top end light pilots in this thread like Krivvan, Xiph and Nightbird have had their share of those

My second ever match with the Piranha involved me being one-shot with zero damage from 600m by Bowser.

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

Had the Piranha came in from behind and shot the Cyclops' open rear torsos with those MG's and Flamer, I feel certain the story would have turned out differently.

He would've turned around and then killed it. The Sleipnir has a good torso twist. And with nothing else hitting him it would've been obvious.

Not to mention that where he was positioned, the Piranha couldn't come from behind.

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 12:15 PM.

[Nightbird]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

I don't believe I've ever stated in this thread that lights should be nerfed. Assaults should be able to see their feet, a lot of them SHOULD be allowed to rotate torsos faster and with more range as there are no rear firing weapons and no rear view options, and apparently aren't ever going to get any.

All limitations PGI added in. Assault were and still are the strongest weight class in MWO. All good assault pilots know this, so they don't complain much when they die once in a blue moon to a light.

[Sniper09121986]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Tell you what, you can have seismic removed from the game if I can have gauss charge eliminated from it as well.

Full support on both counts. And take all consumables with them, while you are at it.

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Here's the stats

Why even go that far? Just open The List and look what the top players are playing. It does not go any higher than 9th position that a player does NOT have the most playtime in assaults with overwhelming majority still running assaults and heavies. That fact alone speaks volumes.

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

...

(usually a King Crab for whatever reason, I don't know what it is that brings so many people to buy that knuckle dragger)

...

Reasons to pick the King Crab:

1. Decent ballistics platform
2. Cockpit provides a wide field of view
3. Has a good torso pitch/yaw range and decent torso turning range
4. Ballistics in arms place ballistics near the level of the cockpit (a bit under it, but certainly better than quite a few 'mechs)
5. Relatively decent armor

Yeah, I know, the Mad Cat II is MUCH better platform, but, that's primarily because it avails itself of Clan equipment, most of which is smaller, and pretty much all of it lighter allowing the Mad Cat to be faster (even equip jump jets) and carry a larger alpha. The significant speed difference offsets the differences in torso movement (if any, can't recall off the top of my head) and I typically score much higher in my Mad Cats vs my KGC, but I still have fun in my KGC and do all right.

[FLG 01]

Alexander of Macedon, on 05 April 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

Any half-decent player in any half-decent 'mech can rack up 1k damage matches in the right conditions. The enemy team being full of spuds isn't an exploit, it's natural conditions in QP.

Heresy! It's all about the Mech, not the pilot! In a light, you are automatically a god-killing meta-monster. Most players are just too honourable to use them, that's why only a fraction of the player base (the evil exploiters) regularly pilots light Mechs.
It has nothing to do with skill or anything. Even an Adder is extremely OP:



PS: I only died because of another OP light, not because I made a mistake and a KGC with good aim blew me away or anything.


PPS: this thread is about bragging, isn't it?

[Dimento Graven]

Nightbird, on 05 April 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

All limitations PGI added in. Assault were and still are the strongest weight class in MWO. All good assault pilots know this, so they don't complain much when they die once in a blue moon to a light.

Actually I don't think PGI EVER let ANY 'mech see its own feet. I've been playing since closed beta, maybe I'm misremembering, but, that's what I remember.

[roekenny]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'm saying we need more features to make available more options.

I don't believe I've ever stated in this thread that lights should be nerfed. Assaults should be able to see their feet, a lot of them SHOULD be allowed to rotate torsos faster and with more range as there are no rear firing weapons and no rear view options, and apparently aren't ever going to get any.

The light pilots then went into histrionics which I've been happy to help keep stirred up.

Said "A crap ton of MG's and lasers eats through rear armor and components VERY fast" I'd also add in srm's too to that caveat. Would say can't boat but then you have the ember with it's 4e 4b layout what can wreck house, fact is we've had this discussion about every small weapon system at one time or another, the fast burn low cool down nature of light weapons make them ideal component destroyers so without nerfing them into the ground (almost are imho) small weapons or limiting lights hard points this argument is going to keep popping up.

As for been able to see their feet I don't see how many could as are tall and save a few clans have cockpits what make it impossible without a full mech deign on all assaults what is not going to happen. Torso speed needs to be a thing however just so brawling gets back into the meta.

[Krivvan]

Sniper09121986, on 05 April 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

Why even go that far? Just open The List and look what the top players are playing. It does not go any higher than 9th position that a player does NOT have the most playtime in assaults with overwhelming majority still running assaults and heavies. That fact alone speaks volumes.

Jarl's list also adjusts based on weight class. Light score is weighed heavier than Assault score because the average Assault score is higher.

Quote

The weight class coefficients are derived from each classes' recent global performance. The current class weights are:
Light: 1.090671842, Medium: 0.9627151535, Heavy: 0.9505204456, Assault: 0.91315593.

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 12:29 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

roekenny, on 05 April 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

... I'd also add in srm's too to that caveat. Would say can't boat but then you have the ember with it's 4e 4b layout what can wreck house...

SRMs have more spread than MGs, lasers and flamers.

Also AMS reduces the effectiveness of SRMs.

Don't get me started on Flamers. I hate the fact that there's a weapon system that can hit the pinky toe of an enemy that can result in the complete disabling of that enemy.

Wish there was an alternative, but don't see anything reasonable that doesn't relegate the flamer back to the scrap heap (other than MOAR coolant consumables)...

Quote

As for been able to see their feet I don't see how many could as are tall and save a few clans have cockpits what make it impossible without a full mech deign on all assaults what is not going to happen. Torso speed needs to be a thing however just so brawling gets back into the meta.

"Feet" or the ground immediately in front of you, it should be possible to tilt that far. Most 'mechs (even lights) are overly restricted in that way.

It's nothing but frustration having a the very top of an enemy 'mech hidden by goddamned mini map (that for whatever reason can't be moved to a location of player's preference -- THAT MAP IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH AN ACTUAL MONITOR SITTING IN YOUR LAP, SO WHY THE F CAN'T WE HAVE PLAYER PREFERENCES TO MOVE IT?!~!?!?)

[Nightbird]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

Actually I don't think PGI EVER let ANY 'mech see its own feet. I've been playing since closed beta, maybe I'm misremembering, but, that's what I remember.

Chetty mechs only, like the trebuchet lol

Edited by Nightbird, 05 April 2018 - 12:31 PM.

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

Also AMS reduces the effectiveness of SRMs.

Not to any appreciable degree. AMS only helps mitigate Streaks, ATMs, and LRMs. It shoots down at best a missile or two on MRM and SRM volleys.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Not to any appreciable degree. AMS only helps mitigate Streaks, ATMs, and LRMs. It shoots down at best a missile or two on MRM and SRM volleys.

Depends on how far away the SRMs were fired, how many AMS's you have loaded, and what skills you've selected for AMS.

Yes, it's least effective against SRMs, but still it's certainly more effective than the "nothing" we have for pretty much every other weapon system out there (where's our special armor types, ablative, etc.?!!?!?)

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 April 2018 - 12:34 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

Reasons to pick the King Crab:

1. Decent ballistics platform
2. Cockpit provides a wide field of view
3. Has a good torso pitch/yaw range and decent torso turning range
4. Ballistics in arms place ballistics near the level of the cockpit (a bit under it, but certainly better than quite a few 'mechs)
5. Relatively decent armor

Yeah, I know, the Mad Cat II is MUCH better platform, but, that's primarily because it avails itself of Clan equipment, most of which is smaller, and pretty much all of it lighter allowing the Mad Cat to be faster (even equip jump jets) and carry a larger alpha. The significant speed difference offsets the differences in torso movement (if any, can't recall off the top of my head) and I typically score much higher in my Mad Cats vs my KGC, but I still have fun in my KGC and do all right.

I wasn't suggesting clan tech at all. I was suggesting stuff like maybe just a Mauler, have some high mounts, lose the barndoor syndrome, get some arm shields, its solid all around. Then there's the newer Nightstar with 4 UAC5 option that works as a somewhat slimmer King Crab without low mounts. If you can handle moving slow then the Annihilator is pretty much the best IS mech in the game.

Honestly I prefer IS for ballistic boating, much more precise and a lot less jamming.

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

I wasn't suggesting clan tech at all. I was suggesting stuff like maybe just a Mauler, have some high mounts, lose the barndoor syndrome, get some arm shields, its solid all around. Then there's the newer Nightstar with 4 UAC5 option that works as a somewhat slimmer King Crab without low mounts. If you can handle moving slow then the Annihilator is pretty much the best IS mech in the game.

Honestly I prefer IS for ballistic boating, much more precise and a lot less jamming.

Honestly I'd like to the KGC chassis with ClanXL, and Clan gauss/lasers. I think the difference in performance would be spectacular (though probably it would need a larger engine cap, and JJ slots to begin to approach the MadCat II)...

[Brain Cancer]

People wonder why I go out of my way to murder lights on sight.

It's because otherwise, I inevitably have those potato players that will utterly ignore a competent light pilot, strip their back armor to near zero, and then die in seconds leading to team collapse and me wishing for real-life pilot injury.

Those lovely double-digit damage scores indicate that's exactly what happened, considering they died within two minutes of likely first contact.

"OH LOOK THERE'S THE ENEMY, LET'S NASCAR." *chasing of assault butts begins*
<Lightpilot has killed Idahospud>
<Lightpilot has killed Mashedtater>
<Lightpilot has killed IeatGLUE>
<Lightpilot has killed Unobservant>
<Lightpilot has killed Blind Fool>
*shooting at assault butts continues by Team Tater, ignoring the prison love simulator working it's way to the front*

*one rolfstomp later*
"LIGHTS ARE OP, NERF PLZ"

The problem is thinking the little guy isn't dangerous. Now that it's obvious, the reaction of the dull is to demand the little guy be useless, rather than treating all the reds as being dangerous and reacting appropriately.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Honestly I'd like to the KGC chassis with ClanXL, and Clan gauss/lasers. I think the difference in performance would be spectacular (though probably it would need a larger engine cap, and JJ slots to begin to approach the MadCat II)...

Taking all that stuff from the Mad Cat MK2 then putting it on a King Crab chassis would just make the whole thing worse since the Mad Cat MK2 also has high mounts and the King Crab doesn't. At that rate why not just play the Mat Cat MK2?

[Brain Cancer]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

SRMs have more spread than MGs, lasers and flamers.

Also AMS reduces the effectiveness of SRMs.

Barely. Knocking 1-2 missiles out generally doesn't cause noticeable degrading of a splatbuild's capacity to wreck things. If they actually were effective versus SSRM/SRMs, we'd actually regularly see AMS as a standard on builds.