333 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Samial, on 05 April 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

I own the piranhas i don't run them because the machine gun ones are stupidly overpowered..

Lol.

If you did run them there is absolutely zero chance you'll end up doing more than 400 damage regularly.

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

Taking all that stuff from the Mad Cat MK2 then putting it on a King Crab chassis would just make the whole thing worse since the Mad Cat MK2 also has high mounts and the King Crab doesn't. At that rate why not just play the Mat Cat MK2?

Oh I do, I do, but... Still love and do well in my KGC, so I do both.

But, again in the "if wishes could come true..." kind of theme, I'd REALLY love to load up my Jaeger with Clantech!!!

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

But, again in the "if wishes could come true..." kind of theme, I'd REALLY love to load up my Jaeger with Clantech!!!

The Jager is actually pretty comparable with its Clan equivalent the Sun Spider. It has better DPS and HP in exchange for being a little slower.

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 01:05 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

The Jager is actually pretty comparable with its Clan equivalent the Sun Spider. It has better DPS and HP in exchange for being a little slower.

Not sure I can agree when I can take my HBK-IIC load up the exact same build as pretty much any of my Jaegers and perform "as well"...

Perhaps the Sun Spider is just "that bad" of a Clan 'mech...

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Not sure I can agree when I can take my HBK-IIC load up the exact same build as pretty much any of my Jaegers and perform "as well"...

The Jager does more DPS than the HBK-IIC. That's not really debatable.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

The Jager does more DPS than the HBK-IIC. That's not really debatable.

Dunno what to tell you.

I can load up an HBK-IIC with dual gauss, dual erml's, and have better speed and survivability than my Firebrand of the same build.

Same with dual LBX-20's, and more so with dual ERLL-6 ERMLs...

Ultimately it's VERY debatable.

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

Dunno what to tell you.

I can load up an HBK-IIC with dual gauss, dual erml's, and have better speed and survivability than my Firebrand of the same build.

Same with dual LBX-20's, and more so with dual ERLL-6 ERMLs...

Ultimately it's VERY debatable.

The ingredient you're overlooking is quirks.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

Dunno what to tell you.

I can load up an HBK-IIC with dual gauss, dual erml's, and have better speed and survivability than my Firebrand of the same build.

Same with dual LBX-20's, and more so with dual ERLL-6 ERMLs...

Ultimately it's VERY debatable.

We're talking DPS and you're bringing up gauss and alpha builds. Totally different things.

[K O Z A K]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

Dunno what to tell you.

I can load up an HBK-IIC with dual gauss, dual erml's, and have better speed and survivability than my Firebrand of the same build.

Same with dual LBX-20's, and more so with dual ERLL-6 ERMLs...

Ultimately it's VERY debatable.

dual gauss h2c has better survivability than a dual gauss jaeger? .....okay

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

I can load up an HBK-IIC with dual gauss, dual erml's, and have better speed and survivability than my Firebrand of the same build.

And the Jager is gonna do 15% more DPS with those builds.

[Dimento Graven]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

dual gauss h2c has better survivability than a dual gauss jaeger? .....okay

If you've got an XL in the Jaeger, very much so.

If you've got anything else, you've compromised speed.

Dunno what to tell you other than my first hand experience in both 'mechs.

I've always done well in my Jaegers, I love the 'mech, BUT, was surprised to find how well I was doing in the HBK-IIC with pretty much exact same weapon loadouts between the two. I was pleasantly surprised to find myself doing better on average in the HBK-IIC than in the Jaeger, though, again the weakness of the IS XL pretty much explains it. Everyone knows to blow the side torso off a Jaeger, even these days you have a 50/50 chance of killing it outright while in a HBK-IIC, it'll still be at least 50% effective with an ST loss.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

dual gauss h2c has better survivability than a dual gauss jaeger? .....okay

This. Everyone who thinks clan gauss can be put in torsos is welcome to try it on Vanguard and tell how it worked out.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

And the Jager is gonna do 15% more DPS with those builds.

Never really been about DPS so much as accuracy for me.

If I can kill your Jaeger in two alphas of my HBK-IIC your DPS don't matter much, even if I walk away with only 50% of my weapons...

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

If you've got an XL in the Jaeger, very much so.

You don't run an XL in the Jager. You don't run XL in any IS Heavy or Assault. You run LFE and take the 10 kph difference. Engine rating doesn't matter as much anymore since agility is no longer tied to it. It's why engine desync is a buff to IS, although apparently not everyone has realized.

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Never really been about DPS so much as accuracy for me.

I can understand survivability but....accuracy? I mean technically the convergence is a bit better? Which makes the only slightest difference but I don't think you're referring to that. The spread of the IS LBX isn't worse. The range on the IS LBX is longer. The IS ACs are going to be more accurate than Clan UACs. Where does accuracy come from?

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 01:47 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

You don't run an XL in the Jager. You don't run XL in any IS Heavy or Assault. You run LFE and take the 10 kph difference. Engine rating doesn't matter as much anymore since agility is no longer tied to it.

Yeah but people are STILL doing the XL in the Jaeger, and that 10kph difference makes a difference in getting into position and getting from point A to point B for flanks and such.

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I can understand survivability but....accuracy?

Yeah... You can fire 15% faster, but if I'm hitting the same spot more often than you are, you're going to lose. Again, pretty much in my quick play experience I've seen a heavy reliance on spray-and-pray rather than on shot placement.

Hence, I do as well, if not better in a lot of cases, in my HBK-IIC vs. my Jaeger.

[Bulletsponge0]

Samial, on 05 April 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

If you're such a bad *** why aren't you in a laser piranha.. lets see those 1000 damage matches in those...

OP you're screaming into the wind here on the forums, the players here like their broken advantages and do not intend to give them up easily.. Exploiters never do..

I love how they try to pass it off as skillz lol

What, exactly, is broken about the piranha?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah... You can fire 15% faster, but if I'm hitting the same spot more often than you are, you're going to lose. Again, pretty much in my quick play experience I've seen a heavy reliance on spray-and-pray rather than on shot placement.

If you both have 100% accuracy but he fires 15% faster then he is the one hitting the same spot more often than you are.

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah but people are STILL doing the XL in the Jaeger, and that 10kph difference makes a difference in getting into position and getting from point A to point B for flanks and such.

Then those people are doing modern IS a bit wrong.

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah... You can fire 15% faster, but if I'm hitting the same spot more often than you are, you're going to lose.

Yeah...but that's not an argument about the mech's accuracy. At best you're arguing about survivability. The Jagermech has better pitch, and is easier to aim with considering it has better agility. Equivalent HBK-IIC builds are also quite a bit slower than the Jagermech with LFE.

I'm not really arguing that the Jagermech is a better mech. I'm saying that your argument is about survivability at best, not accuracy. Your better results in the HBK-IIC are more likely to do with you being able to use its size and JJs to your advantage. Not about it doing more damage, having more accuracy, having more health, having better agility, etc.

EDIT: I wasn't entirely certain about the Jagermech having better agility than the HBK-IIC, but it turns out I was actually right:

HBK-IIC:
20 kph/s acceleration
31 kph/s decceleration
45 deg/s turn rate
81 deg/s twist rate
Torso mounted pitch

Jagermech:
22 kph/s acceleration
25 kph/s decceleration
47 deg/s turn rate
85 deg/s twist rate
Arm mounted pitch

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 02:02 PM.

[Krivvan]

Samial, on 05 April 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

If you're such a bad *** why aren't you in a laser piranha.. lets see those 1000 damage matches in those...

There are plenty of screenshots of matches with 1000 damage urbanmech, wolfhound, cheetahs, commandos, locusts, jenners, etc.

Edited by Krivvan, 05 April 2018 - 02:08 PM.

[Xiphias]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

If you're in a slower 'mech you're trying to move to your team as quickly as possible, as again, they've more often than not left you behind, so yeah, you're attempting to meet your team so you can participate in the battle and share armor.

If you're attempting to move in such a way as to avoid lights completely:

A: You're not helping your team, you may never reach the battle until it's too late.
B: Considering that lights can move upwards THREE TIMES the speed, and can cover THAT MUCH MORE GROUND than a slower 'mech it's a pointless exercise anyway.

You're missing my original point.

This isn't a mech/class problem this is a queue/team problem. Taking a slow mech and getting left behind isn't a light mech issue. With proper movement, positioning, and coordination it's absolutely possible to avoid being flanked by lights. Sure, in solo queue you might end up in situations where there is little you can do, that's the risk of taking a big slow mech. Short range lights have a similar problem when the team is ranged and wants to snipe. It's often near impossible to actually get close enough to the enemy team to do damage without support from your team.

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You can't play the 'git gud' card because people can't see through solid objects.

You misunderstand, that wasn't a 'git gud' response it was a 'And that's a problem why?' I think it's perfectly fine that the smallest/fastest/most lightly armed and armored class can use movement, positioning, and cover to sneak up behind the biggest/slowest/most heavily armed and armored class. I think having to position mechs so that you have vision on blind spots is a good feature, not a negative. Otherwise, why not just make maps one giant flat plain.

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Except you're ignoring the fact that, AGAIN, limited turning ability prevents most 'mechs from being able to see behind them and becasue the light gets to take advantage of 3 times the speed and all the cover available can pop out at LESS than 90 meters leaving ZERO time for the assault to PROACTIVELY prevent getting shot in the ***.

I'm not expecting assault mechs to be able to turn their torsos 180 degrees and see directly behind them. The worst torso turn angle is 60 degrees, but plenty of assaults have 90 degrees or more. Take a quick 45 degree turn with your feet, look 90 degrees behind you and you can can see almost your entire rear arc on that side. Sure, a light that has a clean line directly at our back may still be able to sneak up on you, but it's really a small window.

There are plenty of places that have wide open areas where lights have to cover 400m+ of open space to get a back shot, that's incredibly risky for the light. If you have cover that's within 90m of your back you should either be aware of that (and watching for lights) or just put your back to it (thus preventing backstabbing).

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It is 100% easier for the light to come up behind and shoot a larger 'mech unawares than it is for the assault to do his job of damaging the enemies AND getting to the battle, AND sharing armor, AND constantly checking behind him for the inevitable 12mg/laser butt gank.

And it's 100% easier for an assault mech to 1 shot a light mech than it is for a light mech to scout AND flank AND screen for enemy lights AND respond to cap points AND avoid streaks, AND avoid getting oneshotted.

Lights literally have dozens of mechs/builds that can 1 shot kill/cripple them from the front. Lights have lots of roles that they play, slowing down and harassing assaults is one of them. If being a light is so easy, why is it that assaults consistently score higher as a class?

While not as frequently as lights, I play assaults too. I don't normally have a big problem with getting jumped by lights.

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As opposed to the near 'free pass' mode lights get in just running up behind assaults who can't turn as fast, or far enough, or aim low enough to effectively fight off a single light in a BALANCED manner, let alone MORE than one.

Because there's no risk involved in sneaking around behind an assault within 90m and taking a shot. Most assaults can turn fast enough to deal with a light and most assaults have enough firepower to 1-2 shot a light mech. It's a huge risk to sneak up on something like a 2xHGauss Cyclops. If you don't have a clear line of escape it's really easy to get gunned down. You're also usually far from your team so there's no backup if you get jumped by lights or streaks.

Again, if you're a lone assault far away from your team you absolutely should be getting killed by light mechs. It's a team problem, not a balance problem. I rarely see good assault pilots having problems dealing with lights unless they are getting jumped by a wolfpack.

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Little to no cost? It required investment in CBILLS and experience and loss of the very few module slots we were allotted.

C-bills/experience are for practical purposes infinite so they don't come into play when considering balance. It took a module slot, but before it was added mechs didn't even have module slots, so it was a straight upgrade in that regard. It was also far better than every other module except radar dep such that pretty much everyone took it always. I'm sure not taking advance hill climb was a big sacrifice to get the ability to see through walls.