22 replies to this topic

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

...oh, did someone actually click this?

Well in that case at least the -2 and -3 could use something. Hell, dropping or reducing spooky heat on micros would help a lot, I'd rather have flamers if I'm stuck in that range bracket.

[UnofficialOperator]

... just stagger firing left and right???

[Nightbird]

Like for the balls to create this threads

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Tried that, but it'd still be nice to not explode in the off chance I run around a corner into an Annihilator and panic.

I'm just curious why they even have it, considering the range they're good for and damage 8 tops out at.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Micros shouldn't even have ghost heat, FFS. They deal so little damage at so short a range that the PIR's energy variants are the only 'Mechs they'd be viable on even without it.

[PocketYoda]

Agreed completely, i'll say it again, its not the piranhas that are op its the machine guns.. crit and boating make the piranhas deadly the other piranhas are never used..

[Vellron2005]

IdToaster, on 05 April 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

...oh, did someone actually click this?

Well in that case at least the -2 and -3 could use something. Hell, dropping or reducing spooky heat on micros would help a lot, I'd rather have flamers if I'm stuck in that range bracket.

I knew I should never walk under bridges.. here be trolls..

[roekenny]

IdToaster, on 05 April 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

...oh, did someone actually click this?

Well in that case at least the -2 and -3 could use something. Hell, dropping or reducing spooky heat on micros would help a lot, I'd rather have flamers if I'm stuck in that range bracket.

I much prefer the flame fish over the mg's as if you have a team what pushes it is the most OP mech in the game as you run in 1st heat up their front line so they all have a single alpha in them then team pushes in as they are all powered down and turned around trying to kill you as no one likes a fish or flamers so they come at you with a vengeance. I giggle like a madman every time I can get away with this build as you can feel the rage coming from that cockpit when rest of team comes round the corner for a home cooked meal. However likes it's mg brother it needs teamwork to work or it's trash.

Edited by roekenny, 06 April 2018 - 01:31 AM.

[Krivvan]

The Piranha-2 and 3 are not best used with Micro lasers. Micro lasers, funny enough, are bad when boated. They're only useful in small amounts to save tonnage on builds that need them.

The best laser in the game for damage versus tonnage is the Heavy Small, so taking about 6-10 Heavy Smalls is the best option for the Piranha 2 and 3.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Krivvan, on 06 April 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

The Piranha-2 and 3 are not best used with Micro lasers. Micro lasers, funny enough, are bad when boated. They're only useful in small amounts to save tonnage on builds that need them.

The best laser in the game for damage versus tonnage is the Heavy Small, so taking about 6-10 Heavy Smalls is the best option for the Piranha 2 and 3.

Problem with the heavy smalls is their burn time and cooldown. Their cycle time is almost as long as the cERLLas. Admittedly they make for nice backups, but boating them is just asking to get eaten by other lights,

This is what I run on the 2: PIR-2, sometime with the HMLas dropped for another heatsink.

You can do something like PIR-2, but that forces you to basically do nothing but try for backstabs since you're too hot and on too long cooldowns.

Joking aside, the 2, 3, and B are all pretty lackluster. The A is an anti-missile meme. The Cipher is nominally a mix of the 1 and 2 that does both jobs worse because it lacks the tonnage for a proper hybrid build. At best it's like an cheetah with no ECM or JJ.

[Jack Booted Thug]

I like er smalls myself on piranha myself. Just enough range to chip away without having to face tank and short enough burn time to not get return fire.

Alexander of Macedon, on 06 April 2018 - 05:34 AM, said:

Problem with the heavy smalls is their burn time and cooldown. Their cycle time is almost as long as the cERLLas. Admittedly they make for nice backups, but boating them is just asking to get eaten by other lights,

This is what I run on the 2: PIR-2, sometime with the HMLas dropped for another heatsink.

You can do something like PIR-2, but that forces you to basically do nothing but try for backstabs since you're too hot and on too long cooldowns.

Joking aside, the 2, 3, and B are all pretty lackluster. The A is an anti-missile meme. The Cipher is nominally a mix of the 1 and 2 that does both jobs worse because it lacks the tonnage for a proper hybrid build. At best it's like an cheetah with no ECM or JJ.

Cipher is fantastic.

[Dee Eight]

Piranha buff = fixing the nauseating cockpit.

[Throe]

Samial, on 05 April 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

Agreed completely, i'll say it again, its not the piranhas that are op its the machine guns.. crit and boating make the piranhas deadly the other piranhas are never used..

It isn't the machine guns alone though. All I mean by that though is that machine guns don't need a nerf... The PIR-1 definitely uses machine guns to a distinct advantage, but I would disagree with the idea that it needs a nerf too.

On the contrary, there are several other Lights which could use some buffs, because they simply aren't able to compete, and they should.

Dee Eight, on 06 April 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

Piranha buff = fixing the nauseating cockpit.

Hehe, but that's part of what balances the PIR-1. If they're going to open up the cockpit on the Piranha chassis altogether, then the PIR-1 probably needs a negative MG quirk to go along with that buff, because it's pretty well balanced right now. The other Piranhas could definitely use a small buff though. I'm in agreement with the idea of removing ghost heat from Micro lasers altogether.

[Mole]

UnofficialOperator, on 05 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

... just stagger firing left and right???

Tried it. It sucks. Works great for the Nova when you're packing 12 ERSLs for a one-two punch that totals 60 damage. It's not great at all when you have to one-two punch in order to get what amounts to a pretty pathetic 28.8 points of damage when you consider that it's 12 lasers. If you want to make micro lasers useful in some way, shape, or form, then set their ghost heat limit to 12 or something. There are only a few select 'mechs that could even make use of this change but the ones that can will at least be able to make micro lasers somewhat effective. As it stands I refuse to take a laser that is going to limit me to a range of 150 and will only allow me to do a measly 19.2 damage from a single trigger pull without incurring an insane heat spike. Until the ghost heat limit on Micro Lasers is changed then the energy variants of the Piranha will always be trash tier when compared to their ballistics variants.

Edited by Mole, 06 April 2018 - 11:43 AM.

[Nightbird]

Ghost heat is on 9?

Ermil is 19.2 damage
Ermipl is 21.6 damage

I wish I could do 40 damage in one volley from my locust.

Edited by Nightbird, 06 April 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[Mole]

Nightbird, on 06 April 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Ghost heat is on 9?

Ermil is 19.2 damage
Ermipl is 21.6 damage

I wish I could do 40 damage in one volley from my locust.

Did you seriously just try to argue that micro lasers are OP and/or fine? Nobody uses them for a reason, man.

[Nightbird]

I use them on my Cipher, only use cbill bonus mechs so can't comment on the laser Piranhas. I only use the Cipher in FP, yesterday had 8 kills 1900 damage with it. I believe it has 7ermil in addition to mg.

[Mole]

Nightbird, on 06 April 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

I use them on my Cipher, only use cbill bonus mechs so can't comment on the laser Piranhas. I only use the Cipher in FP, yesterday had 8 kills 1900 damage with it. I believe it has 7ermil in addition to mg.

I'm sure they pair with MGs quite nicely on the Cipher, but the Cipher is the only 'mech that can actually do that and if you are relying on Micro Lasers as your sole source of damage you are not going to have a fun time.

[AzureRathalos]

IdToaster, on 05 April 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

Well in that case at least the -2 and -3 could use something. Hell, dropping or reducing spooky heat on micros would help a lot, I'd rather have flamers if I'm stuck in that range bracket.

Weapon quirks on the -2 and -3 would also help to provide more of a difference between the two variants. Off to the top of my head, maybe this?
PIR-2: Energy heat -10%, No heat penalties for ER Micro Lasers
PIR-3: Energy heat -10%, No heat penalties for Micro Pulse Lasers

mPL can deal more damage over time than ERmL, but you will have to deal with both energy slots that are spread across the body and less energy slots.

[kuma8877]

Alexander of Macedon, on 06 April 2018 - 05:34 AM, said:

Problem with the heavy smalls is their burn time and cooldown. Their cycle time is almost as long as the cERLLas. Admittedly they make for nice backups, but boating them is just asking to get eaten by other lights,

This is what I run on the 2: PIR-2, sometime with the HMLas dropped for another heatsink.

You can do something like PIR-2, but that forces you to basically do nothing but try for backstabs since you're too hot and on too long cooldowns.

Joking aside, the 2, 3, and B are all pretty lackluster. The A is an anti-missile meme. The Cipher is nominally a mix of the 1 and 2 that does both jobs worse because it lacks the tonnage for a proper hybrid build. At best it's like an cheetah with no ECM or JJ.

I would disagree and say the Cipher is easily the strongest of the bunch. The cut and scoop is much more effective (in my experience) than the late game nibbles (even with all the MGs).