352 replies to this topic

[InvictusLee]

JackalBeast, on 06 April 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

JUST. ADJUST. THE. CRIT. SYSTEM. FOR. MGS.

This.

My total lack of faith in PGI's ability to program has led me to spend alot of time playing other games,which is a shame cause I dont really hate MWO. Just some features and lack of creature comforts. I probably wont pick up MW5 either.

[kuma8877]

OrmsbyGore, on 12 April 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

So, do the machine guns do the same amount of damage per shot or per ton of ammo? If the former, yeah, mg's would be ridiculously OP if they behaved like rapid-fire AC2s at short range. Per ton of ammo, that seems far more reasonable (and less intimidating)

2 dam per shot of MG with normal dice spread unless arrays are used. So a Piranha in TT with 12 MG's can do 24 spread damage a turn, with arrays that damage becomes more focused. Can't remember off the top of my head which PIR uses arrays (found it, PIR 4).

Edited by kuma8877, 12 April 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[Nightbird]

kuma8877, on 12 April 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

2 dam per shot of MG with normal dice spread unless arrays are used. So a Piranha in TT with 12 MG's can do 24 spread damage a turn, with arrays that damage becomes more focused. Can't remember off the top of my head which PIR uses arrays (found it, PIR 4).

6 ML would spread in TT as well, we know how that works in MWO lol

[kuma8877]

Nightbird, on 12 April 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

6 ML would spread in TT as well, we know how that works in MWO lol

The rule just demonstrates the outright damage potential of the TT PIR and that mech mounted MG's, are intended to pack considerable punch against other mechs.

Edited by kuma8877, 12 April 2018 - 11:15 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

kuma8877, on 12 April 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

2 dam per shot of MG with normal dice spread unless arrays are used. So a Piranha in TT with 12 MG's can do 24 spread damage a turn, with arrays that damage becomes more focused. Can't remember off the top of my head which PIR uses arrays (found it, PIR 4).

Fun fact: The stock version of the MLX-G in TT uses 2 machine gun arrays with 4 heavy machine guns each which deliver the 2x12 points of damage to two zones at slightly reduced max range (it only has short and medium range with those when compared to standard machine guns) where the stock PIR-1 spreads them over multiple zones and the stock PIR-4 only delivers a max of 1x4 and 1x8 points to two zones with those 4 light machine guns plus 4 standard machine guns at slightly increased ranges - at least with the light array.

... and all that with significantly higher ammo efficiency in all three cases.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 12 April 2018 - 11:21 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Nightbird, on 12 April 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

6 ML would spread in TT as well, we know how that works in MWO lol

Another fun fact: with its heat to damage to range ratio the medium laser is pretty much the best weapon in TT on any mech that has a reasonable enough movement rate ... and using 12 SL in TT will yield even crazier results if you field a mech that can go really fast.

[OrmsbyGore]

kuma8877, on 12 April 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

2 dam per shot of MG with normal dice spread unless arrays are used. So a Piranha in TT with 12 MG's can do 24 spread damage a turn, with arrays that damage becomes more focused. Can't remember off the top of my head which PIR uses arrays (found it, PIR 4).

but does 1 "shot" = 1 bullet?

Edit: I checked, and apparently 1t of mg ammo has 200 rounds, 2 damage per round, with an ammo explosion causing 2x# remaining rounds of damage (TT). So if we assume that PGI is going to continue treating mgs as hit scan weapons, then having 2k rounds per ton at .2 per "round" seems somewhat reasonable, seeing as how mgs have such short range; only change i might ask for is the (re)introduction of knockdowns so a 20 ton light can't leg hump my atlas while I am completely unable to see them. Obviously i have done no playtesting with this, but it doesn't SEEM crazy (though I guess that the mg rate of fire might have to be tweaked, especially if you're bringing 6+). Thoughts?

Edited by OrmsbyGore, 12 April 2018 - 04:22 PM.

[kuma8877]

OrmsbyGore, on 12 April 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

but does 1 "shot" = 1 bullet?

Yes, 1 ton is 200 rounds = 200 shots. So to further clarify, each turn the PIR expends 12 rounds/bullets/shots (one for each MG) at 2 damage per round = 24 damage per turn (spread). Ammo loads like we have in MWO by tonnage would be SUPER overkill in TT.

But in TT, the PIR has a 3 hex max range and is kind of a walking bomb with ammo crits being a fairly common occurrence in TT.

Need to amend, the 200 may very well be defined as "bursts" rather than a direct count of specific shells. Either way it's one MG ticks of 1 from the 200 each turn.

Edited by kuma8877, 12 April 2018 - 04:26 PM.

[Yosharian]

> "Piranha is balanced because it's easy to kill"

> leg structure quirks

[dario03]

Yosharian, on 12 April 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

> "Piranha is balanced because it's easy to kill"

> leg structure quirks

4

[Dogstar]

Der Geisterbaer, on 12 April 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Another fun fact: with its heat to damage to range ratio the medium laser is pretty much the best weapon in TT on any mech that has a reasonable enough movement rate ... and using 12 SL in TT will yield even crazier results if you field a mech that can go really fast.

Hmm, whats the heat for 12 SL in TT?

Clan ERSL have 2 heat and 5 damage for 0.5 tons. So that's 24 heat +2 for running, less 10 heat sinks for a total of 16 after firing once. Lost 3 movement points and chance of a shutdown.

Shoot again the next round and you're looking at over 30 heat and auto shutdown

So yeah, 12 small lasers are pretty much balanced in TT by their heat penalties.

If MWO had a TT-like heat scale with movement penalties then the game would be much better balanced, but no we can't have good balance features because PGI are crap programmers and the players are great whiners

Edited by Dogstar, 12 April 2018 - 10:40 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Dogstar, on 12 April 2018 - 10:33 PM, said:

Hmm, whats the heat for 12 SL in TT?

1 heat / 3 points of damage per SL on IS side. Clans only have ER-SL with 2 heat / 5 damage... => 12 points of heat on a 12 IS-SL mech. With Double Heatsinks that truely work as DHS any mech that has the minimum number of 10 heat sinks (worth 20 pts of heat reduction in DHS) can run at max speed and fire 12 SL without generating any excess heat. And as far as cER-SL and your calc is concerned: DHS and suddenly you're only talking about 6 points of excess heat when moving at full speed and doing that 60 pt alpha with only the minimum number of 10 heat sinks.

For reference: The TT PIR-2 can fire its 12 er micros (1 heat per laser just as with IS-SLs but lower damage - 2 pts instead of 3 - but higher max range) plus its CT mounted cER-SL plus one of its two cER-ML and run at max speed with a single point of excess heat over the stipulated 10 second combat turn of TT. Leave out that CT cER-SL and it's still heat neutral.

Note: my 'fun fact' comment on lasers didn't refer to the Clan ER version to begin with but as another fun fact: 9 cER-SL in TT will yield pretty much the same crazyness as 12 SL with more damage and 0 excess heat in a faster running clan mech with 10 DHS.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 13 April 2018 - 12:56 AM.