116 replies to this topic

[jss78]

LRM's do tend to get less effective in higher tiers, but you can do decent in them.

However, I've always kind of shared that irritation with LRM assault 'mechs.

My own experience with LRM's is that they're far more reliably run with relatively fast 'mechs firing smaller salvos of perhaps 20-30 LRM's. A medium or a fast heavy.

The benefits are that you can keep up with your team and thus you're safer yourself. Also by relocating constantly, you can find those clear firing angles and vulnerable enemies. You trade that massive salvo for the ability to make better use of smaller salvos.

Also, I always have that latent dissatisfaction of one of the heaviest armoured 'mechs on the team lobbing indirect fire from range. It should be the role of a relatively fragile 'mech, if you think of optimal use of team resources.

Back when I ran LRM's, I'd do it on something like this HBK-4J. I'd be able to keep up with my team, coming right behind them. Decent laser punch to throw in when there enemy happens to be in LOS.

I must say my experience about LRM's is about 2 years old, that's when I last ran them. There's been an uptick in the DPS of AMS, and also people seem to run it more. I'm not quite sure what've been the implications to fast 'mechs firing relatively small LRM salvos.

[Dragonporn]

Main problem with LRM boats in particular, is that weapons system is extremely situational. In lower tiers people are generally unaware how to counter, avoid and murder-laughing average lurm boat. In higher tiers it's a different story, to the point where you will be completely screwed and unable to do pretty much anything with your LRMs, and will be fat prey, constantly hunted from minute one. But when folks start being salty and blaming build, it's just hilarious. Full team of Brawlers, f.e. would be facerolled by any mix-build team, that's how balance with 12v12 solo QP generally works.

I don't think OP must choose mech build based on team-mates preferences, that's silly. But I do think OP should buy and try out as many mechs with completely different playstyles as possible to realize which truly he enjoys the most. And yeah, so called disabilities are rather irrelevant in this game. It doesn't require even half of twitchyness of your any regular shooter, and with lower sensitivity, it very easy to aim even for an amateur. Suffice to say, with all detections and giant red frames around your targets, component/loadout info and etc, shooting mechanic itself is rather trivial, this game isn't about that. So choosing weapon system because you think you can't aim well is nonsense IMO.

[mailin]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

I've mostly been using the coolant one, as an emergency pop if I get rushed and need to mass-strike everything. Is the UAV that much preferable?

YES! You can pop a UAV and potentially move toward your friendlies if you have a light on your tail. The UAV will target all enemies in a area so you see what you're up against. Also, if there is a light that is harrassing your back, pop the UAV, move toward your team and you can probably lurm the little jerk to your heart's content.

Personally, I never use cool shot. I learned trigger discipline at an early age, but each to his own.

[Eisenhorne]

Cool shot is incredibly useful, gives you more damage in an emergency. I always take the skills to give me double coolshots on most mechs. Usually double strikes as well, but some mechs do benefit from carrying a UAV as well.

As for SRM boats, I was mostly suggesting Streak SRM boats because they are another lock on weapon system, but a close range one. Best mechs to use them IMO are stormcrows, a Streakcrow carries a lot of firepower and can kill light mechs real good. Clam streaks are better than IS ones, but the bishwacker on IS does an OK job. The BSW-P2 cam carry like 5x SSRM4 and do some serious work.

[The Basilisk]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

This is what I failed to understand and where I was letting my team down, apparently. I largely lived behind cover, only doing direct fire when I or my team were getting hard-rushed. I didn't realize assaults were depended upon for their armor as well as their firepower. I've just bought a Night Gyr, and will save up to equip it. I'll give a smaller streak boat a try as well, when I have the credits for that. Thank you for the help.

One of the main downsides of LRMs (like with all the autoaim weapons in game) ARE their autoaim mechanic.
Since you need a target lock on to use them effectively (you can shoot them without lock by all means but they will spread even more and just fall where you aimed) the better the enemys get that you encounter the harder it will get to be able to:

-- get consistent missile lock ons at targets that
-- are hitable at all and not standing in cover or under an AMS Umbrella
-- are stupid or inapt enough to not just doge your LRMs
-- are without enough experience to just use terrain or friendly ECM to just break your lock mid flight and watch your lrms hit the ground
-- don't use sufficient AMS themsefes to kill all but most of your missiles

You see that is a damn huge load of if's that will make using LRMs hard with any consistent and sufficient performance once you reached a certain tier. (Not to reiterate all the arguments for not beeing an LRM Assault that come in in addition)

[Tesunie]

B0oN, on 14 April 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

Someone please correct me or expand on the SRM bomberlist if they want I cant recall them all from the top of my head,

Javalin is a light mech, FYI.

You forgot one of the more powerful medium mechs out there, the Huntsmen. With the ability to take (with a hero pod) up to eight missile hardpoints... Even without the hero I believe it can get up to six.

jss78, on 14 April 2018 - 01:28 AM, said:

However, I've always kind of shared that irritation with LRM assault 'mechs.

I find LRMs more effective on mediums and heavies (which each are big enough to typically take enough direct fire weapons), but a couple of launchers on an assault can also be beneficial as you get into position. I've never really boated LRMs, so LRM boat assaults may be a different story. As long as they are near the front line, I have no problem with them though.

The problem with LRMs (besides the obvious spread, lock, velocity which are to counter it's ability to shoot indirectly) is how many people use them. Because they CAN shoot indirectly, a lot of people ONLY shoot them indirectly. An assault mech doing that is a lot of tonnage of armor just sitting out back... often times outside of effective ranges (such as 700-800m away from their targets). This poor behavior and "traditional" use of LRMs is what really hurts. It hurts far more than someone using LRMs and being with their team, presenting themselves as a possible target.


I've always seen the of the greatest strengths of LRMs as "I'm out of position and can't directly see the enemy my team is fighting (or they blew by me and left me behind), let me help anyway"; "I'm very badly damaged and can't take any more hits, probably can't even be seen... I'll indirect now to continue to deal more damage otherwise I'm dead"; and I also like them on my JJ mechs for "as I break my LoS, I'll send you a parting gift!" and "JJ shake doesn't effect LRM weaponry..."
Very useful on my Huntsmen and my Sun Spider (because if a Sun Spider gets seen, it loses a side torso...).

[Judah Malganis]

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you started a few days ago (welcome, btw), you're in the lower tiers where LRMs are the fingers of the gods, since a lot of players haven't developed a sense for good defensive movement. As you tier up, any strategy that includes you hiding behind cover for long periods of time will lead to lonely deaths and a lot of losses. LRMs are still playable at higher tiers, but as others have pointed out, you'll have to be about 300-400m away from the fight at most in order to make them effective.

I have only one LRM boat. A MCII-4 with LRM 80 and 4 ERMLs. It has a 1.98 WLR and 2.8 KDR and the avg dmg is 670.3, but I keep up with the front and share armor with the team as needed and, quite honestly, the vast majority of my kills come when I poke over and fire my lasers at opened targets. I'm not that good personally, but if you stick with your team and fight what they fight, you'll tend to do well no matter what build you're playing.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 14 April 2018 - 10:39 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

First, welcome to the game.

Listen to Jedi Panther. Not that he is in the same unit as me, but as a fellow, filthy, rotten and dirty LRM boat pilot.

Me as a LRM boat pilot began due to initially playing on a potato of a laptop. Now well it is like an old glove, but I have had years to recognize what is going to happen and get myself there to affect the game. Sure there are going to be some games where you just get rolled, but others where you can affect movement of the other team. Just think in group play when a unit drops with 4 LRM boats (and yes we were prepared with shorter range secondary weapons for lights) they can over power 2 AMS kit foxes protecting assaults.

What I like to do.

1. I prefer LRM boats that go 80 kph or more.
2. Have TAG and if possible Artemis. (note: sometimes Narc when I have a medium to pop tart with.)
3. Get your own Locks if possible.
4. Try to be under 300 m in the front or right behind the first mech. This is hard to get through some people, but from the front you do not have to worry about lights in the back as much. You also have less flight time. Then other players tend to follow you and the other team normally runs from the pressure.
5. a Medium or clan light with Jump Jets give interesting opportunities for getting and holding locks.
6. C Large Pulse Lasers, Large Lasers or ERLL's complement LRMs. Never really figured out why, other than the range and when you core someone, it is easier to just tap the CT with the LL or ERLL's. they are also good with XL checks due to the pin point damage.
7. for training use a jenner IIC or oxide and try to get more damage than the number of LRMs that you carry. Even the littlest of LRM boats on the Locust works for training. It keeps you close, but also forces you to get better at Arty and airstrikes placement.
8. Learn to use the mini map, on top of learning situational awareness.

Now I will go out with just about anything, but LRM boats still have that special place in my cold and devious heart.

By the way the LRMs are getting buffed from 160 mps to 190 mps. The last time they buffed them to 175 mps people were screaming bloody murder due to the LRMs.

[Pain G0D]

If i might suggest something . Dont spread the LRM damage . Try to keep on pounding one mech until its destroyed . Or at the most stick to no more than 3 mechs . Yes they sometimes go off radar but they usually come back real soon .

[Impetus Lux]

In response to the advice here, I made a heavy LRM boat to replace the assault, and once I got used to being more forward and active with it, I feel like I'm doing okay.

I've also been trying this as a laser boat: https://mwo.smurfy-n...e39ba32bc86288b but I still get my lunch stolen very early in each match. Lowering my mouse sensitivity definitely helped with aiming issues, but I'm still working to learn how to get THAT CLOSE without getting absolutely wrecked before I get there.

Edit: I gave up the lasers and tried this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...14d5336a70cd07a with much greater success. Thanks for the advice, all!

Edited by Lucius Antonius Ursus, 14 April 2018 - 05:19 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Black Knight with XL would be taken out once his singe side torso goes off...

[Horseman]

Correct.

[Impetus Lux]

Is it preferable to not use the XL with the BK? I just used the build as found on http://metamechs.com

[Horseman]

It's preferable to not use IS XL as a new player - you lose one torso and you're dead.
metamechs has been out of date for about a year now, so it's missing a number of things such as Civil War tech.
Inner Sphere has access to Light Fusion engines. They're lighter than Standard engines, cheaper than XLs and allow you to survive a side torso loss.

[Rogue Jedi]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 15 April 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Is it preferable to not use the XL with the BK? I just used the build as found on http://metamechs.com

I am guessing by BK you mean Black Knight.
Since the NewTech arrived last year a Light engine is usualy preferable to XL for any IS Heavy Mech however looking at the hitboxes ^{the Black Knight has a huge CT hitbox and tiny side torso hitboxes, if that is still accurate the Black Knight is about as XL freindly as any other Mech has ever been, possibly even more so than the Jenner} never mind, I looked further down the page and the hitboxes were redone, it has roughly equal side and center torso hitboxes meaning a Light or standard engine is far preferable to an XL

I have not played the Black Knight in a while but my best scoring game ever was in one running an XL350 Engine ^{(back when larger engines affected handling as well as top speed)}.

also bear in mind MetaMechs does not seem to have been updated much (if at all) in the last 10 months, so any "meta" advice on there is likely outdated.

[Impetus Lux]

Horseman, on 15 April 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

It's preferable to not use IS XL as a new player - you lose one torso and you're dead.
metamechs has been out of date for about a year now, so it's missing a number of things such as Civil War tech.
Inner Sphere has access to Light Fusion engines. They're lighter than Standard engines, cheaper than XLs and allow you to survive a side torso loss.

Ahhh. Thank you for clarifying!

Rogue Jedi, on 15 April 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

also bear in mind MetaMechs does not seem to have been updated much (if at all) in the last 10 months, so any "meta" advice on there is likely outdated.

Is there a "fitting repository" that's considered more up to date, or is it more a case of "Swim or die, noob!"

Edited by Lucius Antonius Ursus, 15 April 2018 - 08:13 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Everything was already pretty well covered by many more expert than I, so all I'll say is, don't let the naysayers get you down.

LRM-ishing is fun, and a thing of lethal beauty when done well. Learn to do it well, and make it rain frustration on your enemies.

Rogue Jedi, on 15 April 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

I am guessing by BK you mean Black Knight.
Since the NewTech arrived last year a Light engine is usualy preferable to XL for any IS Heavy Mech however looking at the hitboxes ^{the Black Knight has a huge CT hitbox and tiny side torso hitboxes, if that is still accurate the Black Knight is about as XL freindly as any other Mech has ever been, possibly even more so than the Jenner} never mind, I looked further down the page and the hitboxes were redone, it has roughly equal side and center torso hitboxes meaning a Light or standard engine is far preferable to an XL

I have not played the Black Knight in a while but my best scoring game ever was in one running an XL350 Engine ^{(back when larger engines affected handling as well as top speed)}.

also bear in mind MetaMechs does not seem to have been updated much (if at all) in the last 10 months, so any "meta" advice on there is likely outdated.

I thought the Black Knight Hitboxes must have been redone! Had an XL in mine from way back, and used to run it no problem, but it felt squishy last time I took it out.

[Neutron IX]

P.S. Just wanted to add, there's no shame in being an LRM Assault, so long as you select the right Assault for the job (some Assaults are just born to it, like the Stalker), and so long as you play your strategy right (ie according to all the tips and pointers above), and so long as you share your armor when the time comes for it.

[barnmaddo]

You really do 800+ damage on most matches? That's impressive. My last several matches no one has done more than 600 damage. IMO if you're doing that much damage it doesn't matter if it's inefficiently spread out, especially in tier 5.

If you only use the large pulse lasers after half your team is dead and you finally run out of missiles then it's kinda waste of an assault mech though.

[Horseman]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 15 April 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

Is there a "fitting repository" that's considered more up to date, or is it more a case of "Swim or die, noob!"

More or less the latter.