Jump to content

- - - - -

Lrm = Not Helpful?


116 replies to this topic

#41 Impetus Lux

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:47 PM

View Postbarnmaddo, on 15 April 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

You really do 800+ damage on most matches? That's impressive. My last several matches no one has done more than 600 damage. IMO if you're doing that much damage it doesn't matter if it's inefficiently spread out, especially in tier 5.

If you only use the large pulse lasers after half your team is dead and you finally run out of missiles then it's kinda waste of an assault mech though.


If I look at my stats, since changing to the heavy, my average is 631.08 per match now. But yeah, before I was definitely only directly engaging after I ran out of ammo or when I was getting overrun, so I "get" why the complaints were coming now :)

#42 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:34 AM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

The attached picture is a pretty normal representation of how my matches go (now that I have a basic grasp on how to play.)

Posted Image


You are averaging 200 matchscore, which puts you at under 400 damage/battle on average.

871 is over twice your average, so that isn't a 'pretty normal representation' of your battles.



View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Is LRM really that un-helpful? If it is that bad, is there a different mech or playstyle recommended for someone who's not so talented with the twitchy targeting?


LRMs really are that bad; they are good for padding damage stats, but they don't help their team much or win battles.

I suggest switching to ATMs; you won't be able to fire indirectly much, but if you stick under 500 meters your damage output will be significantly better than with LRMs and you will be more useful to your team overall.

#43 Impetus Lux

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:40 PM

Oh yeah, my overall average is WAY lower. My entire first day I think I topped out at like, 50 damage in a match while I was figuring things out :P When I've tried laser or ballistic boats, I'm usually lucky to hit 150-200, too. Sorry if I phrased it poorly - that was representative of an average match with that boat and only then after I learned the very basics of how matches work. :)

I haven't tried ATMs at all yet. Reading the wiki, I get that they're direct fire, but do they require a lock, or are they a dumbfire weapon?

#44 Eisenhorne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,111 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY

Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:49 PM

ATM's behave very much like LRM's (You can fire without a lock, but you really should have a lock), but have a very flat trajectory. They do no damage 0-120 meters, but 120 - 270 (I think) they do 3 damage per missile. So 3 ATM 9's will do 81 damage if all missiles hit and you're in the sweet spot. It's probably one of the most damaging weapons out there. Harder to use though, because you need to be in line of sight (or at least almost line of sight) and pretty close.

#45 S 0 L E N Y A

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,031 posts
  • LocationWest Side

Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:51 PM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 16 April 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I haven't tried ATMs at all yet. Reading the wiki, I get that they're direct fire, but do they require a lock, or are they a dumbfire weapon?



They are like LRMs, you can dumbfire them, but in general they require a lock to be useful.

The major downside to ATMs is they fly in a relatively low and straight path, which makes their longer range rating almost all but useless.

As such, ATMs, are really only best used at relatively close ranges where you have your own lock.

#46 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:03 PM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 16 April 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Oh yeah, my overall average is WAY lower. My entire first day I think I topped out at like, 50 damage in a match while I was figuring things out Posted Image When I've tried laser or ballistic boats, I'm usually lucky to hit 150-200, too. Sorry if I phrased it poorly - that was representative of an average match with that boat and only then after I learned the very basics of how matches work. Posted Image


NP, it's not a big deal.



View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 16 April 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I haven't tried ATMs at all yet. Reading the wiki, I get that they're direct fire, but do they require a lock, or are they a dumbfire weapon?


ATMs are basically direct fire LRMs; they have a lock, but shoot with a flatter firing arc, so you really can't shoot them over terrain like you can with LRMs.

In exchange, they get much higher damage at shorter ranges, but also have a hard 120 meter minimum range; under that range they'll do no damage.

At 120-270 meters they will do 3 damage per missile
At 320-500 meters they will do 2 damage per missile
At 550-1100 meters they will do 1 damage per missile

In the 50 meter gaps between the damage ranges, there will be a linear drop between the different damage per missile.

They also have much fewer missile tubes per launcher than LRMs; about half for the same weight, which results in them performing poorly against AMS.


So they have some significant weaknesses compared to LRMs, but their damage output is waaaaaaaaay higher. Avoid using them beyond 500-ish meters; get up close, try to get in the 3 damage per missile range and tear enemies apart.
Even if you can't get that close, at just 400-500 meters you will still have a significant damage output. If you have the ammo and have a shot, it doesn't hurt to fire at longer ranges either; every bit of damage helps, just don't stick to long ranges or you'll be ineffective.


Overall, they don't require much difference in aiming ability from LRMs, but do require different tactics and a more aggressive play style.
You won't find teammates complaining about you like when you boat LRMs either, because you'll be up front sharing armor (and shredding enemies).

One other thing: they are Clan only. IS mechs don't have an equivalent.

Edited by Zergling, 16 April 2018 - 02:05 PM.


#47 Impetus Lux

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:48 PM

Awesome, thank you for clarifying! Is there a particular mech you'd recommend for using ATMs? Especially if there's a good medium or light (I don't have any of those yet).

#48 GX9900 Gundam X

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 87 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:09 PM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Brand new player, just started two days ago and bought my first non-trial mech (Highlander IIC).

I'm an older guy and I have a dgenerative nerve condition. I'm not handicapped by any means, but I'm not great at twitch aiming. When I discovered LRMs were auto-guided, I was happy. I read up about the role of an "LRM boat" with what I could find on google, and built mine based on the info I found here: https://mwo.smurfy-n...17e4b53703e2cce

I try to spread harassment around anyone on the enemy front line, and use the LRM as a "cover fire" mechanic to try and force them to keep their heads down when our front is advancing out of cover. Unless someone's taken charge and is calling targets - in which case I just follow their direction.

The attached picture is a pretty normal representation of how my matches go (now that I have a basic grasp on how to play.) I'm never MVP, but I feel like I'm at least contributing decently.

Posted Image

But 4 different times now, I've gotten comments of "LRM 60 Highlander? Screw you man, you're not helping your team with that nonsense"

The first time I shrugged it off as epeen waving, but the repetitions put me in doubt.

Is LRM really that un-helpful? If it is that bad, is there a different mech or playstyle recommended for someone who's not so talented with the twitchy targeting?

LRMs are actually very helpful, but your team has to be good and you have to not be a potate yourself. You need to take some direct fire weapons for just in case typically, you also don't need to go overboard with the amount of launchers. somewhere around the ballpark of 30, 40, or 50 missile tubes is typically enough as a heavy carrier, 20 to 30 as a medium, and 15 to 20 as a light.
Don't boat LRMs on an assault. Assaults are expected to be involved in direct fire roles and if you do an LRM-focused build on an assault you deserve to get yelled at. If you do wanna do one of those stupid LRM 100 builds at least bring a tag laser and face people head on.

Edited by GX9900 Gundam X, 16 April 2018 - 03:10 PM.


#49 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:12 PM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 16 April 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

Awesome, thank you for clarifying! Is there a particular mech you'd recommend for using ATMs? Especially if there's a good medium or light (I don't have any of those yet).


I don't recommend any lights for running ATMs, as they lack the tonnage to be really effective with them. But if you reaaaaaaaally want to try a Light, the Cougar, Adder and Kit Fox have the tonnage for 2x ATM9, but being slow lights they aren't easy to use.

Mediums though? Best choices are probably the Huntsman, Stormcrow and Hunchback IIC-B; those can all manage at least 24 ATM tubes on top of other weapons.

Heavier mechs? Pretty much anything that'd work for LRMs should work for ATMs. An assault with 4x ATM12 runs pretty hot, but it can also deliver absurd amounts of damage.

You could even do 4x ATM9 plus a pair of Medium Pulse on your Highlander IIC. Or 2x ATM12 + 2x ATM9 + 2x ER Medium Laser.
Feel free to drop some ammo or heatsinks for a jumpjet on those builds. You could even put a TAG on there too, if you sacrifice one of the lasers.

Edited by Zergling, 16 April 2018 - 03:21 PM.


#50 Impetus Lux

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:28 PM

Ahh, gotcha. Nah, I don't want to shoehorn them into a certain size "just because," I was just hoping there was a light or medium they shined on so I could kill two birds with one fit :P

#51 Impetus Lux

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:54 PM

Ooo, I missed the edit when I first replied. Those fits are very helpful, thank you!

Edit: Holy crap. I just tried that Highlander ATM fit for the first time. That was my best match by a lot! Thank you so much for recommending it, I felt like a murder machine!

Posted Image

Edited by Lucius Antonius Ursus, 16 April 2018 - 08:43 PM.


#52 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,082 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:58 PM

Just remember. As a LRM boat or atm boat the best complement is for the other side to gripe about how many LRM boats you guys had. That is when you are the only one on the team with missile hard points.

That means you were firing from different positions, affecting thier movement,and being a flat out heartless sob when catching some one out in the open.



#53 Bishop Six

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pharaoh
  • The Pharaoh
  • 806 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:25 AM

@Lucius Antonius Ursus

"I'm an older guy and I have a dgenerative nerve condition."

And you found a valuable role for you in this game and i am very happy to hear that!

Altough LRMS are never my first choice i am glad to see that you figured out how you can have fun with the game Posted Image

So feel free to add me as friend ingame, i organize FP teams on a daily basis and take everyone with me who is friendly and willed to be a teamplayer!

So Warrior, keep the fighting and good luck out there o7

Edited by Bishop Six, 17 April 2018 - 12:26 AM.


#54 DarkFhoenix

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Terror
  • The Terror
  • 401 posts

Posted 17 April 2018 - 05:05 AM

Lurming has always been my favorite role .

Wow thats some serious numbers you are dishing someone who only started .

#55 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,575 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:34 AM

Just had a match last night with a team of five. We had three LRM based mechs (not even boats), an "LRM trap" (only had two LRM5 launchers and more direct fire weapons) and a lone ECM Spider spotter. The match? Polar Highlands Domination.

By the end of the match, the enemy team was grumbling about the LRMs (which we hadn't even boated), charged us after we killed two mechs by pure LRM from sneaky Spider spotter, and then proceeded to get more complaints about "skill-less play" (strategy is a skill, and using LRMs does require some skills to use well) and "such high tier play".

I just thanked them as I am actually a T1 player... and then moved along my merry way. Sad part is, the LRM mechs didn't even do "massive" damage. We just did more or less average damage of around 400-500 an LRM player. And when they charged into our faces, they found we had more than just LRMs on our mechs...

#56 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,082 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:52 AM

Here is one way to have fun, but also to train yourself at getting and holding locks, while teaching others how to LRM.

Get at least 3 other players with LRM boats that have a few back up weapons, or notPosted Image . (we had 15 C-LRM 15's between the 4 of us with one having 6.) Then get into a nice moble mech, maybe a medium or heavy that can move at 80 kph at least and have Jump jets. Have TAG or NARC.

First identify the ECM, AMS and those weirdo's that have radar deprivation. Why radar deprivation, they need to die fast since they can sneak up on you. ECM mechs are great to TAG or NARC and well take out the concealment for other latter in the game. Now AMS fire one volley just to locate the buggers. Even with 2 triple AMS kit foxes, 675 LRMs in 10 seconds will not care.Posted Image

Use ridges or trees. Here you just peak from time to time just to hold the lock (this is where radar deprivation comes into play, and I wonder why so few people use it) and just call out the target and let it rain.

Use full radar deprivation and move to sides not straight back, since you live by the LRM, you can also die by the LRM.

Always inform the other groups in your match of what you are doing since then they will adjust play style, maybe....

Remember to apologize after the match especially for those assaults with sub 50 damage on the other team.

You job is to get locks, so 200 to 300 m engagements are what you are looking, along with taking damage for the team. Now if you are good, they will be hitting the ridge or other obsoletes in front of you.

Remember that certain mechs suffer from LSAS (low slung arm syndrome) or can not elevate or depress their weapons to engage you, so with them just stand in the open and let him know why he is going to die within 10 seconds and who was responsible for it.

Most importantly, trade out the spotter position every few games or when you are really damaged and still have LRMs.

You can also do this with Ravens and other lights in the spotting role.

#57 theUgly

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Leutnant-General
  • 184 posts

Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:06 AM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 16 April 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

Ooo, I missed the edit when I first replied. Those fits are very helpful, thank you!

Edit: Holy crap. I just tried that Highlander ATM fit for the first time. That was my best match by a lot! Thank you so much for recommending it, I felt like a murder machine!

Posted Image


Hey man, glad to see soo many people trying to help out
and nice to see you are enjoying the game.

Wish to recommend you an alternative play style other than lrms and atms.
Note i am having in mind your inability to aim that well .
So what you do is you get close and fire in the general direction toward the enemy mechs.

Just stay with the main group of your team, learn when to be out firing and back in to cover.

Practicing this now while you are still in tier 5 will be much better for you.
Not to mention you are guaranteed to have much more fun ones you get used to the mech.

Here is the built:
==================
https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=265&l=90d84a31acfe457858b7aace14a86183192c09bf

Buy Mad dog type "C", buy left & right torsos type "A" , get one cool shot .
On Skill tree get full Survival (full wit the two ams pints),
full mobility and get the two seismic sensor points.

Remember fire left side then right side or vise versa
and learn to torso twist like a maniac, because you will be right in their face.

Have fun.

#58 ExoForce

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 775 posts
  • LocationFields of the Nephilim

Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:27 PM

Do not use TAG until You have few hundreds matches.
Min 57 km/h engine if assault.
Bind "legs to torso" to your thumb.
Arm-lock off.
Pray for a NARC-er.

Edited by ExoForce, 18 April 2018 - 02:05 PM.


#59 TripleEhBeef

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 700 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:19 AM

To chime in, most of the LRM assault hate comes from watching someone buy an Atlas, rip out the autocannon, stick in an XL engine, and shove in as many LRM launchers and ammo as they can.

Those mechs usually go down. Hard.

#60 TooDumbToQuit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Death Wish
  • 1,539 posts

Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:47 AM

View PostLucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Brand new player, just started two days ago and bought my first non-trial mech (Highlander IIC).

I'm an older guy and I have a dgenerative nerve condition. I'm not handicapped by any means, but I'm not great at twitch aiming. When I discovered LRMs were auto-guided, I was happy. I read up about the role of an "LRM boat" with what I could find on google, and built mine based on the info I found here: https://mwo.smurfy-n...17e4b53703e2cce

I try to spread harassment around anyone on the enemy front line, and use the LRM as a "cover fire" mechanic to try and force them to keep their heads down when our front is advancing out of cover. Unless someone's taken charge and is calling targets - in which case I just follow their direction.

The attached picture is a pretty normal representation of how my matches go (now that I have a basic grasp on how to play.) I'm never MVP, but I feel like I'm at least contributing decently.

Posted Image

But 4 different times now, I've gotten comments of "LRM 60 Highlander? Screw you man, you're not helping your team with that nonsense"

The first time I shrugged it off as epeen waving, but the repetitions put me in doubt.

Is LRM really that un-helpful? If it is that bad, is there a different mech or playstyle recommended for someone who's not so talented with the twitchy targeting?



I say let your LRM freak flag fly.

I also have poor eyesight and hand/wrist problems (after the surgery I'm finding it hard to torso twist, is it me or lack of mobility skill on my mechs?)

So you did 800 damage and had two kills but only 500 of your damage really helped (the anti-LRM Mafia numbers). And you got two kills. Well, I'll take that.

I honestly did not read this whole thread so I'm going to repeat a few things.

LRMs work better on some maps than others.

LRMs often work best if planned and with at least 4 members boating them. I've videoed the best teams in this game using them in Faction Warfare. One team dropped two narc Ravens using stealth armor and a number of big LRM mechs their first two drops. And that sucked for us.

In Sieges, they are sometimes used in Defense on a couple of maps.

Using an "Assault LRMer". You stay right behind your front shooters and (this is important) you fire on the same target a teammate is firing on. A "hard lock" often happens because one of your teammates is starting him down and trading direct fire.

Never ask anyone to "hold locks" for you.

Always try to fire on an enemy mech that a teammate is fighting.

83% of the time, do not fire on fast lights. At times you can hit them or simply help a teammate fighting one of them.

Your main targets should be the biggest, slowest mech you can target.

Have fun, play your game, play well and funk anyone who disses your game.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users