43 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Novakaine, on 16 April 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

My KDR would shoot thru the roof if I lurmed from the rear.
Stalkers Forever!
And where da hell is my Stalker II Pgi!!!!!

Production Year 3137^[1]

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 16 April 2018 - 04:50 AM, said:

There are a couple of builds where the Hellslinger shines, but LRM boat is not one of them.

Oh, and you should have capped Theta after killing the crippled Rifleman.

Yeah I realized that but there was a Highlander out there I could not account for. I am not much of a brawler in assault mechs... I really suck at playing them. I play this build for fun and nothing else ;pp

I really like the way the HS looks. Best Paint Job

Zergling, on 16 April 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

Just incase people haven't noticed, OP's battle was a defeat.

Which demonstrates how LRMs are nice for padding damage stats and match score, but not so good for winning battles.

I use mine more for suppresion than anything else. If you notice when the LRM come.... people go hide.

Brain Cancer, on 16 April 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

He lost by squares- which honestly, did you expect one assault to counter-cap?

But OP's build was horrifyingly bad in terms of using it's energy hardpoints. TAG? OK. Triple LRM 10 with Artemis? Ballsy, but given the rapid fire and spread, OK. It's LRM 30, the bare minimum for lurming these days. One medium laser?

No. Just no. A frickin' Catapult is capable of the same thing.

I mean, I trashbuilt this in 3 minutes and it's actually better than the assault you just trotted into that match.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...36a53fd746c73b3

Anything greater than a 10 just has to much of a spread especially on a moving target with any speed. 1 ML..... well I pack as much ammo as I can :>. Lights don't bother me to much.

Parmeggido, on 16 April 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

So that's where you went when the atlas showed up. I tried to keep him occupied and blew of the ac/20 torso hoping you were keeping yourself positioned to hit him, but as a hunchback, I couldn't tank much damage. If you'd stuck a little closer and done a little distraction, we may have pulled a win by taking theta at the end. Then again, if I was a bit more active these days, I could have applied my damage a bit better and killed enemies faster. HBK-4p is one of the only mechs with good laser duration buffs any more, and my kills to damage ratio is awful that match, 0 kills to over 700 damage with -25% duration lasers... yuck.

Yeah I dropped, and I did not mean to.

DeadEye COTP, on 16 April 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

It makes me die a little inside when people waste one of the few assault slots in PUG to lurm, especially with only 3 LRM 10's. You can pull off LRM 40-60's on heavy mechs and you don't gimp your team nearly as much if you really have some addiction to playing point and click adventures.

Ya know everyone says go bigger, but my testing shows LRM 5 and 10's spread is just so much better than the 15's or 20's. Granted I don't play LRM'ers that oftehn, but just what I have seen.

Honestly I do not see how bringing bigger LRM's help, I did 1.3k damage which is about normal for me in this build 900-1.5k and the Stalkers, and Archer I use can't get above 700.

Dunno, I did not post this as a "'m the best" thread, I posted it because I just wanted to wave :>

[LT. HARDCASE]

You're wasting an Assault slot to run 3 LRM10s, and you're wasting weight on Artemis when 90% of your missiles are fired outside of LOS. You're wasting Assault armor when you are at 90% after your entire team has died. You're wasting the Hellslinger's empty energy hardpoints which could've been used to help your team with direct fire. You're wasting weight on a huge engine to just sit in the back and hurl LRMs.

Darian DelFord, on 16 April 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

Dunno, I did not post this as a "'m the best" thread, I posted it because I just wanted to wave :>

"But when you have LURM assault this is how you play it."

No.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 16 April 2018 - 06:01 PM.

[Potatomasher69]

Bigger lurm is better because your success window with LURMs is small. You really need to find a successful shot, then put 80 LURMs in it. Good opponent will find cover before giving you the time to get a bunch of lurm 5s on him.

[Samantha Rbnsn1990]

People will find any excuse to pick someone else apart it seems.

Good on you for pissing people off with an LRM assault mech.

Laugh maniacally as you bring the rain.

[Brain Cancer]

Samantha Rbnsn1990, on 16 April 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

People will find any excuse to pick someone else apart it seems.

Good on you for pissing people off with an LRM assault mech.

From the video, the people he pissed off was his own team.

It doesn't even take LRMs. When you see an assault in the back with light yellow armor and the entire team is dead, it's generally going to scream "didn't do my part", or "I use my team as protection while DPSing off their locks, yay me!".

Heck, even the triple LRM 10 is a reasonable concept given the variant, but it utterly lacks anything of note to go with them. One medium laser. It's the same thing I tend to facepalm about as a common flaw in building a missile boat. You're 85 tons. You can spare a few tons somewhere to add a few medium lasers on and actually have secondary guns beyond a single dribble of laser fire. You can readily even swap to ER mediums or pulses- two or three of which also serve as handy finisher guns rather than wasting precious ammo and at least modest close defense enough to make someone murdering you up close have a few scars to remember it by, even if you get owned. If you're more standoffish, ER meds poke-finish weak spots rather than dumping dozens of missiles at that red CT.

Heck, I was riding in weaker Clan LRM boats for most of my time up to the CW update, literally for years. If you're gonna do LRMs, you've got to do it 110%. Solid chassis (check here). Good backups (not at all in this cases). Draw fire, use your armor (not even close). Ranging properly (done well here) and peeking to get best clustering with Artemis and/or TAG (a wash, given being daring enough to get just a little higher up hills would have at least given fewer missiles to disable or kill a target, notably the Archer King Hark XL checks).

Shooting LRMs? Done well. The other two biggies- not being useless up close and drawing your fair share of fire - not so much. It results in an ending that looks really good (Hey, you DPSed to ammo exhaustion) personally, but results in the entire team dead and a loss for everyone else. A little more aggressiveness and willingness to take some hits, and it might have even been a win the other way around.

[Lykaon]

Darian DelFord, on 16 April 2018 - 04:22 AM, said:

Besides, Hellslinger is not the best in direct conflict

-15% missile cooldown
-10% PPC cooldown
+20% PPC velocity
-5% energy heat
-50% external heat transfer
+14 base armor per arm

Have you tried using MRMs and snub PPCs?

[Vellron2005]

El Bandito, on 16 April 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

1. It is true that he should have shared armor more. Having 90+% armor for most of the match as an Assault is not how you play the class effectively, even as a LRM boat. And it was a complete waste of Artemis, as he mostly did not have LoS on this targets.

As long as a single light can annihilate assaults, weight classes don't matter, this is not tabletop.. Altho, I do agree on the Artemis thing.. that's why I don't use it, cose' I'm actively trying to avoid getting shot alot, so it's just a waste.

Zergling, on 16 April 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

Just incase people haven't noticed, OP's battle was a defeat.

Which demonstrates how LRMs are nice for padding damage stats and match score, but not so good for winning battles.

Answer as expected from you.. getting old fast.. suggest skipping and ignoring.

Prototelis, on 16 April 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

Y'all are literally arguing over the best way to play badly.

Way to dump on everybody who don't play like you do.. bravo.. you win at being a toxic person.

Samantha Rbnsn1990, on 16 April 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

People will find any excuse to pick someone else apart it seems.

Good on you for pissing people off with an LRM assault mech.

Laugh maniacally as you bring the rain.

I agree wholeheartedly.. +1

Darian DelFord, on 16 April 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

I play this build for fun and nothing else ;pp

All in all, Dear OP, don't let these guys discourage you or put you down. You did great, better than most, and did it with something that most people consider subomptimal (but we both know it's not ;-) ), and you should be proud of yourself.

I commend you.

ALRM would welcome one such as you with open arms.

And don't explain yourself to these guys. You don't owe them anything.

Edited by Vellron2005, 16 April 2018 - 11:28 PM.

[Samantha Rbnsn1990]

Brain Cancer, on 16 April 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

From the video, the people he pissed off was his own team.

It doesn't even take LRMs. When you see an assault in the back with light yellow armor and the entire team is dead, it's generally going to scream "didn't do my part", or "I use my team as protection while DPSing off their locks, yay me!".

Heck, even the triple LRM 10 is a reasonable concept given the variant, but it utterly lacks anything of note to go with them. One medium laser. It's the same thing I tend to facepalm about as a common flaw in building a missile boat. You're 85 tons. You can spare a few tons somewhere to add a few medium lasers on and actually have secondary guns beyond a single dribble of laser fire. You can readily even swap to ER mediums or pulses- two or three of which also serve as handy finisher guns rather than wasting precious ammo and at least modest close defense enough to make someone murdering you up close have a few scars to remember it by, even if you get owned. If you're more standoffish, ER meds poke-finish weak spots rather than dumping dozens of missiles at that red CT.

Heck, I was riding in weaker Clan LRM boats for most of my time up to the CW update, literally for years. If you're gonna do LRMs, you've got to do it 110%. Solid chassis (check here). Good backups (not at all in this cases). Draw fire, use your armor (not even close). Ranging properly (done well here) and peeking to get best clustering with Artemis and/or TAG (a wash, given being daring enough to get just a little higher up hills would have at least given fewer missiles to disable or kill a target, notably the Archer King Hark XL checks).

Shooting LRMs? Done well. The other two biggies- not being useless up close and drawing your fair share of fire - not so much. It results in an ending that looks really good (Hey, you DPSed to ammo exhaustion) personally, but results in the entire team dead and a loss for everyone else. A little more aggressiveness and willingness to take some hits, and it might have even been a win the other way around.

I don't take your commentary seriously. Every post by you that I've had the misfortune to read has been laced with passive-aggressive statements and ad-hominem attacks on anyone you deem to be of lesser value than yourself.

I play this game to have fun, not as a career. You should maybe stop taking shits on people so much and just accept that not everyone is going to play the way YOU think they should play.

[Horseman]

Vellron2005, on 16 April 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

As long as a single light can annihilate assaults, weight classes don't matter, this is not tabletop.

They matter. If you bring an assault, you should bring assault-grade firepower - this applies even if said firepower consists of lurms. Otherwise you're just wasting tonnage.

Quote

You did great, better than most,

At the expense of his team, which is the major problem here.

Quote

something that most people consider subomptimal (but we both know it's not ;-) ),

It's a build that within the same exact role could be done on a 20 ton lighter mech and is both outgunned and outlasted by a build that could be done on a 5 ton lighter mech. By what metric is that "optimal"?

Quote

and you should be proud of yourself.
I commend you.

He should neither be proud of nor commended for what he did, only learn how to improve over it. There are three distinct things he could have done both in the match and when building his mech that would have the net effect of delaying - possibly preventing - some of the losses on his team and made the match less likely to snowball against them.
* Bringing in more firepower (and ammo) on his mech
* Playing more aggressively and tanking some of enemy fire on his plentiful armor during the match
* Focusing fire more to take out - or cripple - enemies.
That's three separate counts on which he was not doing his job as an Assault LRM boat, Assault in general nor LRM boat in general.

Samantha Rbnsn1990, on 17 April 2018 - 12:59 AM, said:

I play this game to have fun, not as a career.
You should maybe stop taking shits on people so much and just accept that not everyone is going to play the way YOU think they should play.

Let me present you with a small conundrum: Some players "have fun" by deliberately crippling - or outright killing - their teammates. Does their right to "fun" entitle them to, as you put it, "taking s***s": on their teammates, or does their teammates' rights to not have "s***s taken" at them override the one person's right to "fun"?

If he wants to pilot an assault LRM boat, that's his right. The problem isn't that he did that, but that the specific way he did so was detrimental to his team, and that despite clear proof of that being the case he was trying to promote his match as "the right way to play LRM assaults".

It is the opinion of a number of players here (including myself and Brain Cancer) that OP's approach amounted to "taking s***s" on the 11 other people on his own team, whether he understands that or not, regardless of his inflated damage score. We do not think it was okay for OP to do, and we think he could have been a better teammate to them in several ways - all of which have been explained here.

Edited by Horseman, 17 April 2018 - 03:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

Vellron2005, on 16 April 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

As long as a single light can annihilate assaults, weight classes don't matter, this is not tabletop.. Altho, I do agree on the Artemis thing.. that's why I don't use it, cose' I'm actively trying to avoid getting shot alot, so it's just a waste.

A single Light can't waste an Assault as long as that Assault stays close to the firing line, and is covered by his teammates. In that case, his 400+ armor point could have helped his mates to spread the enemy damage.

[Zergling]

He scored just 1 solo kill and another 2 KMDD assists for his 1305 damage; that is hilariously inefficient damage output. I'd expect a direct fire build to score that with just 500-600 damage, in less than half the engagement time.

Heck, here's a battle from yesterday where I scored the same 1 solo kill + 2 KMDD assists with just 340 damage, using a 5x Medium Pulse Linebacker:



So with just 340 damage output, I was similarly effective at killing the enemy team as the OP was with 1305 damage.
And it took me a fraction of the time, resulting in enemies doing less damage to me and my teammates, which helped my team win the battle.

Edited by Zergling, 17 April 2018 - 08:32 AM.

[Horseman]

Zergling, on 17 April 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

He scored just 1 solo kill and another 2 KMDD assists for his 1305 damage; that is hilariously inefficient damage output. I'd expect a direct fire build to score that with just 500-600 damage, in less than half the engagement time.

Take it from me, it's inefficient even from the perspective of someone who loves lurming in an assault mech.
A lurmer who persists on his targets can get more kills and KMDDs with less padded damage, cf https://i.imgur.com/9torfdQ.png , https://i.imgur.com/nGAspqD.png , https://i.imgur.com/d976uTf.jpg

[Darian DelFord]

Some of ya'll are taking this thread wayyyyy to seriously.

[JediPanther]

Darian DelFord, on 17 April 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

Some of ya'll are taking this thread wayyyyy to seriously.

Naturally. Any mention of 'lrm' and the haters and lrm pros come out to do forum battle of lrms. Kudos for your scores in a lrm assault tho. Seems any time I use an assault no matter the build it just magically explodes with under 400 damage and no kills. way to slow even with that lfe 340 and 60-ish kph.

Unrelated but next time we get opposite teams in qp I won't go hunting for ya when we're both in alpha lance. That night of mm making us opponents was a strange one.

[Darian DelFord]

JediPanther, on 17 April 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Naturally. Any mention of 'lrm' and the haters and lrm pros come out to do forum battle of lrms. Kudos for your scores in a lrm assault tho. Seems any time I use an assault no matter the build it just magically explodes with under 400 damage and no kills. way to slow even with that lfe 340 and 60-ish kph.

Unrelated but next time we get opposite teams in qp I won't go hunting for ya when we're both in alpha lance. That night of mm making us opponents was a strange one.

Aye, rarely due I play anything heavier than a medium. Which makes some of the responses hilarious

heheheh I am a sneaky bastage when I am in Alpha lance :>

[Ghogiel]

OP what's it like being garbage at lurming?

[Angel of Annihilation]

There are quite a few Assault mechs that make good LRM boats however the vast majority of people using them don't build them right and/or don't play them correctly. Basically Assault Mechs have armor and should be using it. Therefore instead of standing way off in the backfield acting as Light mech bait, LRM Assaults should actually be playing the mid-line and giving the enemy more targets to shoot at so they are sharing all that armor. Also no mech should be without at least some direct fire weapons it can use in a pinch, generally at least 4 Medium Lasers at a minimum. You should never be relying on just LRMs in an Assault Class mech.

As long as they are following these rules, engaging the enemy at 200-400m, sharing their armor, can actually defend themselves against mechs that can rush them and have some sort of non-ammo requiring back up weapon, I don't have a problem with an LRM Assault.

[Prototelis]

Vellron2005, on 16 April 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

Way to dump on everybody who don't play like you do.. bravo.. you win at being a toxic person.

Maybe so.

Hiding in the back so you can preserve yourself and inflate your numbers in a team game is even more toxic.

[Darian DelFord]

Ghogiel, on 17 April 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

OP what's it like being garbage at lurming?

Prototelis, on 17 April 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Maybe so.

Hiding in the back so you can preserve yourself and inflate your numbers in a team game is even more toxic.

Darian DelFord, on 17 April 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

Some of ya'll are taking this thread wayyyyy to seriously.