29 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

Once upon a time, I was a bright-eyed mech pilot looking forward to Solaris and the chance to try my mettle against other pilots. Sadly, the naivetette has been stripped from my eyes and am now forced to just accept that MWO has too many underlying problems for any of it to work all that well.

Solaris has fractured the player base into even smaller buckets. There just aren't enough players to make this competitive. The fact the leaderboard is splitting into players with a huge number of wins and players with almost no wins is telling. With enough players, this doesn't happen because their are enough players at every skill level to provide challenging matches at all times.

The map design is terrible. Beyond terrible. The only allowed mechs because of the maps are brawlers. You can be a fast brawler or a tanky brawler, but you will be a brawler. Anything else is just DOA. Tiny maps with limited vertical change that might as well have just been the same map with different skins, ie. a jungle skin, a warehouse skin, etc.

Lag shielding which is only an every now and then thing in the rest of the game seems to be getting more prevalent. This should not happen in any modern game. if PGI is ever going to fix MWO, a different underlying game engine is a must. Maybe after they finish MW5, they can take that engine and use it to create MWO 2.0.

The divisions mechs were separated into feel arbitrary and broken. In division 7, I racked up some easy wins with the X1, but lose to other people's X1's trying practically anything else. This happens in every division. In fact, I have a really good idea if I'm going to win or lose a match before I ever launch simply based on the mech I picked. Launch in my Victor, win. Launch in my Ghille, lose. This is going to become more pronounced as more of the playerbase because aware of the top mech in each division. You will play the meta mech or you will lose.

The bottom line is that MWO has always been an arena brawler and there are much better arena brawler games out there. If it wasn't for my love of big stompy robots, I would have given up so much sooner. And while I had hoped that getting rid of the randomness of a broken matchmaker would allow what works in MWO to shine, the reality is that the good parts of MWO get lost completely because of how Solaris was implemented. I want to play sneaky backstabby mechs at times. I want to play sniper mechs at times. And sure, sometimes I like playing my brawlers, too. But even the brawlers are limited in that you will play the meta mech in your division or you will be at a huge disadvantage.

p.s. I'm sure someone reading this is going to post, "Oh, he's just salty because he's getting pwned. Nope. I was actually able to hold a 50-50 win/loss simply because I own a ton of mechs which makes jumping in and out of the metas easy. The fact that it's which mech I pick, and not my skill, is the disappointment.

[BurningDesire]

easy way to avoid being bored in solaris is dont play it.
come back to QP the numbers are so low it takes ages to find a match, or maybe its the mech i pick

[Xavori]

BurningDesire, on 19 April 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

easy way to avoid being bored in solaris is dont play it.
come back to QP the numbers are so low it takes ages to find a match, or maybe its the mech i pick

Ya. I've been taking my unskilled Fafnirs out in QP.

They work okay if the team doesn't leave my 48kph self behind and I can hammer things with that dual heavy gauss. It works not at all if the other team decides to focus me because no way am I moving out of incoming focused fire.

I also will prolly go through and do all the S7 heroes as well. They are a very mixed bag.

[Monkey Lover]

I found the 2v2 to be a little more forgiving when it comes to the mechs but you still can't take anything you want.


Biggest disappointment I have is I wanted an easy way for all my unit(whats left of them) to see me fight. I wanted to see my other unit member fight.

Lastly i wanted to 1v1 anyone on my friends list not just some random person.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 19 April 2018 - 01:32 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Meh.

I just can't get bent out of shape about Solaris. The population trends demanded it or something like it. The Divisions are not terrible but as is always the case with PGI's approach to statistical analysis fails to account properly for outlier performance, and so inevitably we have clear variant leaders in most Divisions. The maps are inherently small to accommodate no larger than 2v2 play and are typical products of PGI's past approach to map design. There is really nothing about Solaris that anyone should have been shocked or surprised by.

Either you like 1v1 or 2v2 combat in this game or you don't (private lobby matches have always played out as mostly brawls before, so I can't ding them for that trend here). If you do, but don't like the divisions, just wait a few months. If you don't, then come back to QP or CW. But honestly besides those divisions, everything else that PGI has done with Solaris is additive to the greater game (wait times in group queue seem fine so I can't even ding them for the addition of 14 new queues, etc.) So even if one thinks the maps suck, or bolt ons are a aesthetic horror, or whatever you dislike about the new mode, they have added stuff to the game and you can ignore the whole damn thing if you choose. C'est la vie.

[Ghogiel]

I like 1v1s but I knew for years now that I wouldn't want to do more than 10-20 in a row all that often. And honestly it's way more fun in lobbies with better players, mirror mechs, longer range dueling, best of 5s and not rando MMing, a ton of stuff you won't see in solaris is actually more fun than most of solaris NSRing.

imo there is a lot to like about solaris update. There is a lot of good things in the UI but perhaps not all the UI itself. Div mech rosters are garbage, which was obvious as soon as they published them etc. I wouldn't worry too much about it right now, most of the player base hasn't 1v1 ever. Let the novelty wear off some for a few weeks

2v2 is much more fun as well for obvious reasons.

Edited by Ghogiel, 19 April 2018 - 02:09 AM.

[Thorqemada]

QP is well, having to many Oceanic Matches and lost almost every single one of them but waiting time is not bad for Tier2.

[Reposter]

The divisions concept is a little broken, no point not taking a fast heavy or a well balanced Assault in Division 3 for example. I have tried both 1v1 and 2v2 and find that 2v2 is undeniably hard or even broken if both players do not have a good load out and play to the meta of the division.

My friends and I are thinking screw the current divisions and just balance the matches either by tonnage or by the classes of the mechs involved. I think a lot of people feel mediums in 2v2 is not very well balanced to justify taking when you can face off fast heavies and very hard hitting assaults.

[Bombast]

Solaris has pretty much met every expectation I had for it.

Thank God that, now that my Shadowhawk is skilled, I never have to set foot in it again.

[process]

I think PGI will eventually figure out that they need to start by organizing the divisions by weight class, then waiting to see which variants tend to over or under perform.

[Asym]

OP, I listened in last night on TS and four of our team dropped... Your words are their thoughts... As said above, I just couldn't push the "launch" button because, after listening to 20 matches on TS, it is obvious that S7 isn't for below average players or for pilots who do not brawl... Who wants to put themselves into a guaranteed losing situation: that isn't any fun!

Your post is spot-on. Solaris will work for the top 20 or 30% of the remaining population since it involves a "leader board" and crowing rights and that isn't a bad thing...... the operative question is........is there anything left to do??? FP is out. QP is a mess that even a potato can't rationalize what is going on there.... Good luck and good hunting. I can't wait to see what "events" PGI dreams up to retain the non-active playing pilot base? That at least, is something to look forward to.....

Edited by Asym, 19 April 2018 - 07:07 AM.

[Dee Eight]

On this account, haven't played it at all. On my Alt...got to rank 3 in Div 3 and 7 and well.. I'm back to QP. There's only soo many times I want to play my VND-1X or a Roughneck in a row even if the fights are over in anywhere from 45 seconds to 5 mins. They pay very little in XP and Cbills and its just not worth the time investment to get caches for bolts on that only fit a handful of mechs (currently just the chassis which were in the Solaris hero pack, and the Kodiak that I've determined). I've won more matches than lost in both divisions but still... its just the same tactics on every map, and just using mechs which I don't otherwise play in QP/FP and thus can re-configure as solaris specific builds. And because of the divisions grouping mechs which do well in a 12v12 QP environment together, there's a ridculous # that shouldn't be together in the same division for 1v1 or 2v2. I shouldn't have to play shadow cats vs king crabs for example.

[Metus regem]

To be blunt, this is more or less what I expected.... the only thing I didn't expect was to hear that the Vindy 1X is OP in it's division...

[Dee Eight]

Its nice that IGN reviewed the update... but unless it gets pushed on Steam to draw in more players for Solaris... who might then stick around and play the other modes... well... its NOT going to help stem the loss of players every few months. Honestly the trial mechs for each division should be what's most meta for that division. The uziel champion in Div 7 for example while a good weight and agile, just dies to easily to most everything else because well...its an UZIEL. Its got bad heat management and terrible hit boxes. And we never had a community driven effort to come up with an uziel champion so that's something PGI created for Solaris specifically. If they were going to create a new champion mech, they could have just altered an existing one to be more Solaris capable (they afterall changed the loadout of the Cheetah champion last year from six SPL to six ERSL with more heat sinks). The BJ-1(C) for example could swap the medium lasers for ER smalls, upgrade the armor to LFF, replace the 235XL with a 225Light and add 1 more point of armor (and redistribute the torso armor to have more in the front facing). They "invented" a roughneck champion for Solaris as well... LB20 and dual MRM20s with 3 HMGs, though I did see Chris Lowrey yesterday using one that was the LB20 and an MRM40 (probably the 2A as it has a 15% ballistic cooldown and 10% missile cooldown quirks).

[DarklightCA]

Solaris is well designed for what it is. The division system they got is perfectly fine. It creates a lot more variety matches than just assaults vs assaults as there are other classes of mech that can take on a assault and pilots willing to play them against assaults.

I also don't mind the map design, some of them are designed pretty good for a 1v1 or 2v2. A lot of the 1v1's prior to solaris which took part on steiner col were largely more mid range mechs with high alpha or good DPS and the new maps aren't exactly any smaller than it so I don't see why you can't take a mid range-long range mech on some of those new maps.

Also considering the population of this game I would say something like solaris is tailored pretty well to it. Giving it the only place for PGI to match make based on a players SSR if majority of the people don't just quit it after day 1. More importantly giving people a platform to improve their individual performance which is really needed in this game.

It's got a cool reward system and a cool cosmetic system. I have zero complaints about it, I don't even care if the pay is crap right now because you'll get more cbill bonuses the more you play which is awesome to me and given how quick the matches are maybe when your maxed out those will start to really add up.

There are some broken mechs in some divisions but honestly this was their first try at division balancing, you can't really be mad at that.

[Eisenhorne]

In my experience in Div1 so far, there are a lot of non-brawling Annihilators. Lots of mechs with 500+ range, gunning things down in Boreal or Steiner, both of which allow 500+ meter combat ranges.

[Ruccus]

What I'd suggest is to try slumming around in Division 5, 6, and 7 for a while to see if it's different. I'm having a fun time in Div 7 and seeing a variety of mechs and builds.

[MechaBattler]

There's always going to be a meta sadly. I mean theoretically they'll adjust the tiers and mechs that aren't meta enough will be relegated to a tier that is more appropriate to them. But seven tiers is such a broad balancing mechanism. That it simply can't stop there from being mechs better than others. Unless they institute some kind of handicap or bonus for the underdog mechs. It's not really going to change anything.

And of course it's all about brawler builds. Were you expecting a big open field with no cover so long range builds could win? I've had a few games that were more cat and mouse. Damn mech factory is a perfect place for lights to hide and poke. But admittedly once you're engaged. Unless you have a decidedly higher speed, it's brawling time. I feel like they should buff all JJs or at least buff the skill tree. Because some of the maps definitely have terrain and obstacles that could make good JJ mechs interesting. But even a medium doesn't get great lift without a certain investment. I'm also dissapointed we haven't seen any destroyable cover in the maps. Though that might not really matter.

[Bigbacon]

Metus regem, on 19 April 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

To be blunt, this is more or less what I expected.... the only thing I didn't expect was to hear that the Vindy 1X is OP in it's division...

the armor quirks.....

I've been trolling around in the Jenner IIC with 6xLRM5s....almost won one but time ran out.

[LowSubmarino]

Solaris is fun, but it is too one dimensional on almost all maps to be interesting for a wide audience.

Its super close range. On most maps, even if you are fast, even the slowest mechs can corner you because theres literally no way to run and disengage. Speed and mobility cannot be utilized effectively, reducing the encouters to high armor, high dmg face tanking brawls, which simply isnt my playstyle.

To really test your self under at least somewhat realistic circumstances, you will need to address the different tactics and strategies, that eg QP maps provide. But mwos community likes short, brief, arcade style encounters. Reducing the number of effective strategies significantly.

I had a number of fun matches, but in the end, its a stare down cause of map design which is exctly what I feared. Maps would need to be at the very least twice as big with more options to utilize speed and mobility in general. That is not the case and thus, its facetanking direct brawls most of the time. That is fun for a bit but its just one single playstyle and too one dimensional to invite a wide variety of playstyles and a huge audience.

They should have anticipated that but once again it is alwys about lore. Instead of fun gameplay. So, its a nice side show for a bit now and then but it could have been a way to truely test yourself vs all kinds of playstyles.

To prevent ppl from just hiding on bigger maps with more options, alllowing faster mechs to actually use their mobility, they could have penalized ppl that did not engage for a certain amount of time. Maybe 30 seconds or so. There would be ways to discourage ppl from just hiding. But that would be infinitely more fun than just mere stare downs and armor face tanking death matches.

QP still is way more fun, more options, more different possible tactics, speed can be as lethal as armor. So after like 20 matches, im now back on the real battlefield.

QP.