29 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

Raidyr, on 26 April 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

There is no conflict at all with having the position that large groups make small groups hard to play in group queue, and that duo's in Quick Play (look it up) wouldn't make things particularly rough on solo players. Group queue allows groups from 2 to 12 to drop with and against each other which is a massive swing in levels of coordination (which in this game is just as important as positioning and more important than aim) compared to my proposal, which would let two man teams join quick play teams that would obviously be spaced evenly between matches and teams.

I'm afraid this is wrong. Maybe two casual guys who aren't good at the game and just chilling wouldn't be a big problem for solo queue, but system will be exploited by skilled, competitive players, who can easily wreck whole enemy team just working together in duo. So no, anyone who wants to play with friend or somebody else should look past solo queue, otherwise this mode will be pointless.

[NRP]

Yeah, it would be exploited almost instantly (just like before).

[Wil McCullough]

Take two comp level players, stick them in meta assaults on the same team and drop them in a qp match.

Can you see how broken that is? Imagine the salt from the ALREADY whiny assault pilot demographic. The average qp assault is notorious for afking for 30 sec at the start, running off alone to do their own thing and whatnot. Now three of these derps are facing off against at least two comp players who can ct core them in a second with focus fired alphas.

Disaster.

That was what happened before.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Raidyr, on 26 April 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

For the people just saying that I should join a clan, play 2v2 Solaris, or do Private matches; That is clearly not what I'm asking for in the original post but I appreciate how often it has been repeated, thanks.

[Redacted]

What do you mean by abuse the system?

I'll take this one down piece by piece because I find it just needlessly combative.

1) I'm sorry if it's been asked before. The last thread I found when I searched was several months old though and I figured it would be better etiquette to make a new thread than bump an old one.

2) I used to play in a group of 4 or 5 others but they all quit and we gradually stopped playing. I'm coming back to the game again with a friend (please read the OP before posting next time) and neither of us frankly have the desire or time to look for a group of people to play MWO with. We just want to play MWO together without getting kicked in the teeth by two 5 man drops on the other team while the two 5 man drops on our team are ignoring us (or worse, berating us) for not being on their Discord

3) Of course private matches and Solaris matches won't do. I don't even understand why I have to explain this. If I said I wanted to play CTF with a friend and people recommended that I just play Deathmatch that would be absurd. I want to play "traditional" MWO.

4) It's not about "getting to drop against solo players" because obviously the times when I play quick play I'll be matches against opposing duos as well. Again I feel like you are making really needlessly combative assumptions but my intent here.

Finally, you speak of cognitive dissonance but I think the only person here suffering from that is you. There is no conflict at all with having the position that large groups make small groups hard to play in group queue, and that duo's in Quick Play (look it up) wouldn't make things particularly rough on solo players. Group queue allows groups from 2 to 12 to drop with and against each other which is a massive swing in levels of coordination (which in this game is just as important as positioning and more important than aim) compared to my proposal, which would let two man teams join quick play teams that would obviously be spaced evenly between matches and teams.

I appreciate the response but please in the future read more and assume less, thanks.

A few years ago, premade units were able to drop in the solo queues. It was pretty lame if you weren't in a unit. The units that (go figure) defended premades in the solo queue used to say the same things you're saying: "It's okay because there will be a premade on the other side, too!"

Only there weren't, because the matchmaker couldn't always find a premade to put on the opposing team. In addition, the matchmaker had a difficult time ranking premade groups to balance a match fairly. You might have a competitive duo who build and train together regularly on one team, and you and your "learning the ropes" chum on the other. There were so many complaints that PGI finally made groups drop with groups and solos drop with solos.

I think everyone who posted in response has adequately covered how easy it would be for 2-man squads to troll the solo queue, especially in lower tiers, where people are learning to play this hard-to-learn game without the kind of help you are giving your friend. When I say "cognitive dissonance," I am speaking to this notion in particular: that allowing premade 2-man units into the solo queue would inflict upon solo players the very issue you are complaining about in the group queue.

I'm sorry if my succinct response reads as hostility. Understand that it's tiring to read this sort of post every few months when, if you've researched these forums as you've said you have, you should have a sense of the community's consensus on the matter, even though you don't like it and wish with all your heart that we've magically all changed our minds since the last time it was brought up. I know it's hard for some to distinguish an attack on their idea from an attack on their person. I don't know you; why would I be hostile to you?

I appreciate your response; it confirmed my assumptions nicely.

Edited by draiocht, 30 April 2018 - 03:05 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[JRcam4643]

Nema Nabojiv, on 25 April 2018 - 05:10 AM, said:

Solo Q will be immediately swarmed by duo+duo+duo syncdrops and it will screw the real solo players big time. So, no.

As a matter of fact [Redacted] been doing it already, probably syncdropping when their chief streams or something.

What is a "real solo player"? And as you say people can and do sync drop already so what's the big rub?

Edited by draiocht, 30 April 2018 - 01:27 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[JRcam4643]

Raidyr, on 24 April 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

I'm a returning player bringing a friend along and despite having an enjoyable experience when we play Quick Play on our own, the fun immediately ends when we join group play. It seems like, from what I've gathered both ingame and on various community sites, that group play is mostly populated with larger groups of players, typically in clans. This leads to situations where not only are we fighting organized groups of up to 10 players on the other team, but also feeling like the "odd men out" when playing with organized groups on our team and being disconnected from their communications. This has led to us simply not playing in group queue which is disappointing since the very nature of online games makes them more enjoyable to play with friends.

Has there been any discussion to opening up two-person groups to joining quick play? I get that it might upset a lot of dedicated solo players but maybe the matchmaking can work it's magic and balance the two teams with equal amount of duo's, or spread them out amongst lobbies.

The big problem is PGI has been unable or unwilling to make a MM that actually tracks player by skill level. How would you track skill level? Probably damage per battle, solo kills per battle and kills per battle would be the three key stats. What does the current MM actually use? As far as I've heard it only uses player tier, which has nothing to do with skill level, and mech weight.

Have you ever looked at your stat page on the forums? None of the three stats I listed above are tracked. In my opinion what should be done is axe the group queue and limit group size to 3 players and put'em in quick play, like World of Tanks, but you need the sophisticated MM for that to work.

[Requiemking]

JRcam4643, on 26 April 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

The big problem is PGI has been unable or unwilling to make a MM that actually tracks player by skill level. How would you track skill level? Probably damage per battle, solo kills per battle and kills per battle would be the three key stats. What does the current MM actually use? As far as I've heard it only uses player tier, which has nothing to do with skill level, and mech weight.

Have you ever looked at your stat page on the forums? None of the three stats I listed above are tracked. In my opinion what should be done is axe the group queue and limit group size to 3 players and put'em in quick play, like World of Tanks, but you need the sophisticated MM for that to work.

I wouldn't use those stats personally. Depending on mech build it is really easy to farm those stats. For example, a Mad Dog with LRMs when played by a competent pilot can very easily farm damage while not gaining much in terms of kills or KMDDs.

[JRcam4643]

Requiemking, on 26 April 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

I wouldn't use those stats personally. Depending on mech build it is really easy to farm those stats. For example, a Mad Dog with LRMs when played by a competent pilot can very easily farm damage while not gaining much in terms of kills or KMDDs.

And such a player would not rise that high in rating which would be correct. Most people I run into on the forums say that kind of farming is not a winning style of play and to an extent I agree with that. Large damage alone I don't think is a good measure of skill.

[Nema Nabojiv]

JRcam4643, on 26 April 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

And as you say people can and do sync drop already so what's the big rub?

People can already drop in groups in: GQ, FP, scouting, and S7(?), so yes, what's the big rub? Whatever that phrase might mean.

Coincidentally, players who want to play in groups don't want to play with other groups. They want to farm unorganized teams instead. That is disgusting.

[draiocht]

Sync-dropping is a violation of the Code of Conduct as an attempt to exploit or manipulate the matchmaking system. This and related complicated exploit or griefing violations may be reported for investigation by emailing moderation@mwomercs.com with any evidence and/or details available. Further information on reporting may be found in the PGI Support Articles: https://mwomercs.com...-for-misconduct
[mod]Due to repeat cheating/exploit reference in discussion,
this thread is now closed.

Please move tangential constructive discussion to other relevant threads.[/mod]

Edited by draiocht, 27 April 2018 - 09:19 AM.