20 replies to this topic

[ScoutMaster]

I thought they were division 1. Why am I facing annihlator? And why does it seem like he's doing way too much dmg for his loadout?

He's like 3 shotting me with medium pulses.

[DarkFhoenix]

Hey think I got wacked by that same wierdo.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

ANH-1E is the worst annihilator by far (as a pure energy mech at 100 tons + low engine cap + IS DHS, ouch) and would get absolutely creamed by any Div 1 assault.

But it can still have a relatively cold, decent damage build for solaris like this

https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=568&l=88c6b43f551656ed9a9161682d2e7ffc30babada
https://mwo.smurfy-n...43df4644a42c6a2

Or they could switch to DHS+standard for a far less optimal build but bump upto a higher alpha like so
https://mwo.smurfy-n...9b86b9ac9e38cd1

In all these cases we have 50+ pt alphas. It could well kill most mechs in this game in 3 alpha strikes through the CT.
Let's not forget that the duration is 0.6 seconds on IS MPLs (0.67 on IS LPLs) and so they aren't that hard to be precise with.

Disclaimer: I don't play much Solaris and I don't claim to know exactly what your opponent would have been running, but it would be close to this.

[El Bandito]

ScoutMaster, on 25 April 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

I thought they were division 1. Why am I facing annihlator? And why does it seem like he's doing way too much dmg for his loadout?

He's like 3 shotting me with medium pulses.

The Anni-1E is in Div 2, the rest are in Div 1.

[CygnusX7]

Someone wiser than me once said, "so don't go inside 300 meters".

[Dogstar]

CygnusX7, on 25 April 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Someone wiser than me once said, "so don't go inside 300 meters".

3xLPL says Hi!

Oh and thanks for the builds, I've been struggling with the 1E to find anything remotely effective and these look good.

Edited by Dogstar, 25 April 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[Zergling]

I was running my Anni 1E about 2 or 3 days ago, mostly with a 8x Medium Pulse + ridiculous number of SHS build.

Ended up with 10 wins to 5 losses, which is a lot better than I expected.

Edited by Zergling, 26 April 2018 - 02:15 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Oof. Keep that nonsense in division 1 where it belongs!

[El Bandito]

I met a dual HPPC + MPLs build that defeated my dakka KDK-3 in Div 2. I lost only once in 22 matches with that KDK build.

[cougurt]

RickySpanish, on 26 April 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

Oof. Keep that nonsense in division 1 where it belongs!

the annihilator 1E is kinda trash though. it certainly doesn't belong in division 1.

[PAYWALL]

Dogstar, on 25 April 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

3xLPL says Hi!

Oh and thanks for the builds, I've been struggling with the 1E to find anything remotely effective and these look good.

The common LPL, MPL build uses only 2 LPL and 30 single heatsinks. It is possible to kite these things. It can also be beaten by Atlas-D with mixed loadout and lots of armor.

[Zergling]

PAYWALL, on 26 April 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

The common LPL, MPL build uses only 2 LPL and 30 single heatsinks. It is possible to kite these things. It can also be beaten by Atlas-D with mixed loadout and lots of armor.

One of my losses in the Anni 1E was to an energy boat Nova Cat that successfully kited me on Steiner.

Another was to a 2x LBX10 + 2x MRM30 Atlas D.

Edited by Zergling, 26 April 2018 - 03:47 PM.

[PAYWALL]

Zergling, on 26 April 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

One of my losses in the Anni 1E was to an energy boat Nova Cat that successfully kited me on Steiner.

Another was to a 2x LBX10 + 2x MRM30 Atlas D.

Yep..it is not invincible. But it is solid vs KDK3, Warhawk, Mad Dog and of course the lil buggers like Piranha and Mist Lynx.

[Lightfoot]

CygnusX7, on 25 April 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Someone wiser than me once said, "so don't go inside 300 meters".

Well that rules out Solaris, the outer walls are only 600 meters from map center so 70 percent of the time you will be at 300-400 meters. < The Problem.

[El Bandito]

Lightfoot, on 26 April 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

Well that rules out Solaris, the outer walls are only 600 meters from map center so 70 percent of the time you will be at 300-400 meters. < The Problem.

70% of the time you will not be inside 300 meter range, so isn't that just fine? Besides, it is pretty easy to outrun an Anni.

[Lightfoot]

El Bandito, on 26 April 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

70% of the time you will not be inside 300 meter range, so isn't that just fine? Besides, it is pretty easy to outrun an Anni.

You might think that you can stay out of 300-400 meter range, in practice though you can't. Here is why.

You go 80 kph, Anni goes 48 kph (an average). You make you initial attack at 600 meters, Anni returns fire with ERLs. Anni closes to 450 meters, you fire again and turn to gain range, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds. You hit the wall, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds. You turn and fire, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds, You start skirting the wall, firing, Anni fires ERLs and ER meds turning, but because the Anni is at the map center it is now closing in because you are at the edge of the map and must move up to 3 times faster than something at map center, but you only go 80 kph, not 150 kph. It evens out as the Anni moves away from map center, but the Anni will always be closing in and firing continually at this point. It will almost always be within high damage range of it's ER mediums.

It's simple physics, or geometry. Think of a record on a turntable with the Anni near the center and the heavy mech at the edge. The Anni is barely moving, while the heavy mech at the edge is moving past at a blur to keep up.

Geometry 101.

So you see that to actually use range versus Assault mechs you need to provide much larger straight ranges for the heavy mech to actually get away from a slow mech at map center. The Solaris maps have a longer longitudinal axis, but it's not long enough to escape medium to short range in most cases once short range is established. That's why the mixed Divisions will fail. It's just basic physics and the only way to escape that is change the map geometry to be much larger in some way.




.

Edited by Lightfoot, 28 April 2018 - 10:46 PM.

[El Bandito]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

You might think that you can stay out of 300-400 meter range, in practice though you can't. Here is why.

You go 80 kph, Anni goes 48 kph (an average). You make you initial attack at 600 meters, Anni returns fire with ERLs. Anni closes to 450 meters, you fire again and turn to gain range, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds. You hit the wall, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds. You turn and fire, Anni fires ERLs and ER Meds, You start skirting the wall, firing, Anni fires ERLs and ER meds turning, but because the Anni is at the map center it is now closing in because you are at the edge of the map and must move up to 3 times faster than something at map center, but you only go 80 kph, not 150 kph. It evens out as the Anni moves away from map center, but the Anni will always be closing in and firing continually at this point. It will almost always be within high damage range of it's ER mediums.

Wait, so that Anni uses ERLL+ERMLs? I bet it generally performs worse than the pulse version. At least my KDK-3 has nothing to fear from ER Anni.

[Lightfoot]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

Wait, so that Anni uses ERLL+ERMLs? I bet it generally performs worse than the pulse version. At least my KDK-3 has nothing to fear from ER Anni.

ER large or Large Pulse doesn't change the geometric physics in play on a mostly circular map (oval in this case), even if it had no obstacles. You are not going to be able to use range except for brief instances.

Again think of a record on a turntable with the Anni at the center and the heavy mech or medium mech at the outer edge. The Anni is barely moving while the heavy mech at the edge is moving past at a blur to keep up. But heavy mechs don't travel 3 times faster than an assault so the assault is actually closing the distance if moving from map center which it will be.

The only way to escape the above result is to make the maps larger to create a straight run away from the assault. And we all know this even if we don't want to admit it. Not saying you. I do question PGI's planning. Maybe they didn't realize the physics at play. They did go to great effort to force brawling and limit long range obviously, so many obstacles, but I think they forgot to factor in physics from circular geometry.

Edited by Lightfoot, 28 April 2018 - 11:23 PM.

[El Bandito]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

ER large or Large Pulse doesn't change the geometric physics in play on a mostly circular map (oval in this case), even if it had no obstacles. You are not going to be able to use range except for brief instances.

Again think of a record on a turntable with the Anni at the center and the heavy mech or medium mech at the outer edge. The Anni is barely moving while the heavy mech at the edge is moving past at a blur to keep up. But heavy mechs don't travel 3 times faster than an assault so the assault is actually closing the distance if moving from map center which it will be.

The only way to escape the above result is to make the maps larger to create a straight run away from the assault. And we all know this even if we don't want to admit it. Not saying you. I do question PGI's planning. Maybe they didn't realize the physics at play.

I think Solaris is intentionally designed to have short and swift fights--which why the maps are not bigger. Otherwise, spending whole 10 minutes chasing after a PPC poptart is far more boring. I personally have no issue with current map size, but rather their designs.

[Lightfoot]

Well if it's just brawling they will have to use mostly Class based Divisions. Div 2 is the KDK-3 division at the moment by far. Very unbalanced. Even though I like Solaris 7 in MW4 and the basic idea of it in MWO, I am not going to do S7 if it's just brawling. Too many exploits when you pull range out of MechWarrior. In truth the Solaris 7 maps remind me of Doom and Quake MP maps. That doesn't work for mechs. Mechs are sophisticated machines designed to cover ground and and attack targets in multiple ways. If they don't do that, it's not MechWarrior. S7 is Quake or Doom.