41 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

Nema Nabojiv, on 04 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Cuz velocity of course. Why would anyone use LB20X when there is HGR, now that is a question.

4 tons less per weapon, higher ammo per shot, technically a higher range, 20 individual chances for crit per gun with extra crit damage, higher component health, and it doesn't explode and damage you when it's destroyed. More of an option for mechs that can run 2 LBX20, but can't run 2 HGR.

Edited by MechaBattler, 04 May 2018 - 02:26 PM.

[Luminis]

I'm all for removing GH from the AC20 (and buffing the LB20 for higher DPS to keep that thing around). Regardless, I gotta tell you that the comparison to the HGR is stupid. Yes, yes, I get it, 50 PPFLD damage.

On a weapon that explodes, has a charge time, is four tons a pop heavier and, crucially, locks you into STD engines. Just not a valid comparison. No matter how often it's being postet.

MechaBattler, on 04 May 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

4 tons less per weapon, higher ammo per shot, technically a higher range, 20 individual chances for crit per gun with extra crit damage, higher component health, and it doesn't explode and damage you when it's destroyed. More of an options for mechs that can run 2 LBX20, but can't run 2 HGR.

And higher base DPS.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Brain Cancer, on 04 May 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Incidentally, AC/20 + 2 SNPPC is 26 heat for 26 tons. Dual AC/20s is 23.5 for 28 tons (plus the doubled demand for ammo, of course).

If you're a snibbity snab King Crab, looking onto the snubbies as torso guns and just using one arm for an AC/20 is a thought.

And now we come full circle back to the Misery 40 build with less **** PPCs.

[Brain Cancer]

Without GH, dual 20's are better. But unless it's removed, yes. It's the same idea and it certainly works on the Misery as well, though you can more easily split the snubbies to arm/CT or both arms as you like. Even use a UAC/20 if you feel silly.

[Chados]

A change that is far, far overdue. In the age of dual heavy gauss rifles, AC/40 Jagers and Catapults seem so...quaint.

[Y E O N N E]

Chados, on 05 May 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

A change that is far, far overdue. In the age of dual heavy gauss rifles, AC/40 Jagers and Catapults seem so...quaint.

AC/40 anything is way less good than it ought to be because of the ghost heat.

[lazorbeamz]

LB20 far outpaces AC 20 nowdays. Literaly the same but weights less, has less heat and does bonus damage on structure.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 05 May 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[FupDup]

lazorbeamz, on 05 May 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

LB20 far outpaces AC 20 nowdays. Literaly the same but weights less, has less heat and does bonus damage on structure.

No, the LB 20-X has the same tonnage. They're both 14.

[Felio]

Speaking of ghost heat, whatever happened to energy draw? I took a long break and missed it. I guess they added it and took it out completely. It must have been truly awful for them not to fall for the sunk cost fallacy and keep trying to improve it.

[Brain Cancer]

Energy draw never got past the test server.

[Variant1]

Ghost heat is pretty forgiving and lax. They should have made it more stricter imo

[Brain Cancer]

[Mcgral18]

Metus regem, on 04 May 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

It is always interesting to see and hear the people the claim to be "top shelf" players, but seem to lack lateral thinking ability... nothing is truly rock, paper, scissors. Those BoomPults/jagers had a major flaw, range. They were glass canons that could be killed by an XL check.... same goes for the BoomRaven. Just like the DireStar or HexPPC Stalker, every highly specialized build has an Achilles Heel, one just has to spend the time looking for it, then figure out how to exploit that flaw.

Sadly, they usually just find it easier to cry for a nerf than actually do the work... hence we have junk mechanics like ghost heat.

...nearly every robot you listed was a meme mech


Just in case you didn't know.
The serious versions of the mechs did have downsides, but the state of the game made those downsides completely marginal (see: lel 1.5 damage SRMs and not yet existing laser HSR)



LB20s do not have GH
AC20s do have GH

LB40 is used
AC40 is not used


Hm...
I'd drop the GH, as 40 damage in the current state of the game is pretty laughable
Does it really up the Power Creep? They're inferior weapons to much of what we have. Power has already creeped, and the nerfs are largely done to individual mechs, to make them unfun to use (see Accel/Decel and turn rate)

[Brain Cancer]

The only real thing dropping GH will do is make the heat budget for throwing in at least one SNPPC pretty much what it's like now to fire two AC/20s at once.

So we'll be seeing something close to what HGauss does, albeit with considerably more heat.

[Khobai]

ghost heat on AC40 wont be dropped

because it can be combod with other weapons like lasers

and honestly im surprised theres no ghost heat on dual heavy gauss, there should be

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 04 May 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

I'm for removing GH from AC20s, but who knows what PGI is designing off of.

If running only 2AC20s, you can already alpha 3 times then sustain on single fire with 10 heat sinks. It's not a great build as with all other range limited builds.

id rather them have extended bursts (ala clan) than ghost heat at 2. people hate the cac20 but its really much better than the ac20. less space, less weight, longer range, heat spread out due to burst fire. its a lot easier to pair up too. i have a dire build with 2 cac10s and 2 cac20s that can alpha twice before heat is an issue.

ghost heat kind of breaks ultra 20s on both sides. a weapon should not be able to ghost itself. the mrm40 doesnt ghost itself. a 66 point laser vomit alpha doesnt ghost itself either. its not like its 40 damage. considering that it jams 15% of the time, its really only doing 37 damage on average (36.6 clan) spread over a burst, and less if you account for the time you cant use it due to a jam. i honestly wouldnt mind upping it to a burst of 5 or 6 if you take out the self ghost heat.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2018 - 02:47 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Nema Nabojiv, on 04 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Cuz velocity of course. Why would anyone use LB20X when there is HGR, now that is a question.

Good luck fitting HGR on a King Crab.

[Variant1]

Brain Cancer, on 05 May 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

ha ha i like it! im honoured you would go so far as to edit my name in the image. Im saving it for my entertainment
Im pretty sure im just a normal guy to the rest of the community though

[Seranov]

Satan n stuff, on 06 May 2018 - 04:41 AM, said:

Good luck fitting HGR on a King Crab.

My Kaiju says hi. Not that I run one on it, though. Was always LB20X/AC20 + 2 SNPPC + RL40 for great deadside tanking. If you meant Dual HGauss, then I will allow you that.

[ShiverMeRivets]

I dont get it.
The argument for removing 2AC20 ghost heat can be rephrased to this:
"A handful of assults can load dual HGR with all its issues and at the cost of being limited to STD engines - therefore all of them plus some heavy mechs should be able to load 2AC20 or 2UAC20 on top of an LE engine and fire them without ghost heat".

I am sorry. I may be quite new to this game, but this sounds like a weak argument, and that someone wants to improve a certain build without suffering the limitations and downsides imposed by 2HGR. If 2HGR is so good, go right a head and load that instead of 2AC20.

Current dual UAC20 is not very effective because of ghost heat. I do not wish to see assult and heavy mechs running around with dual UAC20 that are not forced to stagger their shots and can spike 80 damage in 1 second - then do it again 3 seconds later - and again, while twisting in between.

For the record, I use 2AC20 on a Victor9A1. It works fine with chain fire. 2 UAC10s are more effective though.