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Shadow Hawk 2H


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#1 Adam Mieter

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 06:06 PM

Hi guys,

Just figured I share my build that I really, really enjoy playing. Maybe someone will find it useful, who knows :)
It is definitely a medium-short range brawler, so it is kind of useless on maps where people just dig in and try to snipe each other to death. This is the 'final' version, meaning that I haven't felt the need to change anything on this 'Mech for a long time now. So here it goes:

Armor: Standard
Heat Sinks: Double
Structure: Endo Steel
Missile Guidance: Standard

Weapon Group 1: Rotary AC/5 w/ 3.5 tons of ammo
Weapon Group 2: 1x Streak SRM 6 + 2x Streak SRM 2 w/ 2 tons of ammo
Weapon Group 3: Medium Laser
Weapon Group 4: 2x Light Machine Gun w/ 0.5 ton of ammo
Weapon Group 5: AMS w/ 1 ton of ammo

Engine: XL Engine 255

Extra Equipment: Beagle Active Probe, 2x Jump Jet, IS Targeting Computer Mk. I

Armor: 288/370
Heat Mgmt: 1.14/2
Firepower: 86.5/250
Speed: 78.5/52.3

Relevant Skills:
RAC Jam Ramp Down Duration -15%
Rotary AC/5 Ammo Capacity +30
Light MG Ammo Capacity +500
SRM Ammo Capacity +10
Missile Spread -2.5%
Cooldown -6.75%
Heat -5.25%
Range: +12%
Velocity: +3%
Armor Bonus: +11.4%
Structure Bonus: +30.6%
AMS Damage: +1.5
Torso Yaw Speed: +8%
Torso Yaw Angle: +6%
Torso Pitch Angle +2%
Mech Top Speed +4.5%
Startup Duration -7%
Max Heat +3%
Heat Dissipation +2%
Screen Shake -35%
Sensor Range +21%
Target Info Gathering +28%
Target Decay Duration +0.7
Advanced Zoom
Seismic Sensor
360 Target Retention
Acceleration/Deceleration Rate +10.5%
Turn Rate +5%
Crit Chance (Receiving) -7%

Let me know what you guys think, it has served me well.

#2 Zergling

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:08 PM

Please don't use RACs, they are just godawful bad. RACs don't even take advantage of the SHD-2H's -15% cooldown quirk. Plus an isXL engine is generally a bad idea.

The 2H is better off taking advantage of its triple ballistic hardpoints to run something like 3x AC2 + 1x ER Large with a 250LFE or triple AC5 with a standard 200.

If you want to run a single big ballistic, then try something like 1x UAC10 + 2x MRM10 with a 280LFE, or 1x UAC20 + 2x ASRM4 with a 280LFE.

#3 Thrudvangar

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:33 PM

View PostZergling, on 04 May 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

Please don't use RACs, they are just godawful bad. RACs don't even take advantage of the SHD-2H's -15% cooldown quirk. Plus an isXL engine is generally a bad idea.

The 2H is better off taking advantage of its triple ballistic hardpoints to run something like 3x AC2 + 1x ER Large with a 250LFE or triple AC5 with a standard 200.

If you want to run a single big ballistic, then try something like 1x UAC10 + 2x MRM10 with a 280LFE, or 1x UAC20 + 2x ASRM4 with a 280LFE.


"Meta" or "wannabe meta" builds are not good for everyone...

Also an isXL engine isn't generally a bad thing...
A bad thing is a shadowhawk with triple ac5 walking below 60 kph...

#4 Zergling

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

View PostThrudvangar, on 04 May 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

"Meta" or "wannabe meta" builds are not good for everyone...


Meta exists is the Most Effective Tactic Available. If a player can't make meta work, then they need to learn how to make it work.

The OP's build is what would be termed 'completely ineffective' if it went up against competent opposition, because it doesn't try to be even remotely meta.



View PostThrudvangar, on 04 May 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

Also an isXL engine isn't generally a bad thing...


On a mech with easily isolated side torsos like the Shadow Hawk, it is very much a bad thing.



View PostThrudvangar, on 04 May 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

A bad thing is a shadowhawk with triple ac5 walking below 60 kph...


For 1v1 duels, it works fine. I put that in there more as a Solaris build than anything (although I'd refine it further for Solaris).

Edited by Zergling, 04 May 2018 - 11:55 PM.


#5 Thrudvangar

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:19 AM

What you are writing about the meta is, sorry, simply not true...

I know alot of ppl who are not playing with meta builds, including myself because they play better, even against competetives with loadout wich fit their playstyle better than the meta. And "need to learn" something you dont like makes your play not better but even worse because it's boring or whatever and makes ppl curse more about it.

Learning to play better is not = playing the meta.

If the OP is successfull with it, why should he play meta? You can be successfull in other ways than using copy & paste builds.

This is nonsense.

#6 jss78

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:39 AM

Must join the "meta" crowd here... for MWO purposes Shadow Hawks are all about maximising that focused punch from those high hardpoints. They're what that 'mech has going for it. So it's 2K with lasers and/or missiles, 2H/5M with multiple ballistics, and SRM bombing 2D2's (some people combine this with an LB-10X).

I somewhat disagree though about not running XL's in Shadow Hawks though, in my experience they're quite good at distributing damage and tend to die CT, not LT/RT loss.

If you want to play Shadow Hawks in anything resembling a mixed lore build, my honest suggestion is to do it in HBS's BattleTech. Not trying to be snide -- it's a great robot in that game.

#7 Thrudvangar

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 03:15 AM

View Postjss78, on 05 May 2018 - 02:39 AM, said:

Must join the "meta" crowd here... for MWO purposes Shadow Hawks are all about maximising that focused punch from those high hardpoints. They're what that 'mech has going for it. So it's 2K with lasers and/or missiles, 2H/5M with multiple ballistics, and SRM bombing 2D2's (some people combine this with an LB-10X).

I somewhat disagree though about not running XL's in Shadow Hawks though, in my experience they're quite good at distributing damage and tend to die CT, not LT/RT loss.

If you want to play Shadow Hawks in anything resembling a mixed lore build, my honest suggestion is to do it in HBS's BattleTech. Not trying to be snide -- it's a great robot in that game.


You're right, you're right. But i don't think that the OP is fighting toe to toe against bigger mechs at the frontline. I think he's playing it like a (too slow) flanker who appears at the enemies back or fight against lights most of his time.

Anyways, if he has fun and success with it, why not?
I dont think we're talking about 1v1 solaris crap or 12-man coordinated group play here.

My first mech in MWO was the SHD-2D2 with an uac5, 2x medium lasers and streaks... and it worked very good for me. I've had and still have XL engines in my SHDs and even Griffins and never really hat trouble with them, they are tanky if you twist and not trying it against a whale or something face to face :)

Anyways, all this meta talking sounds to me like:
If you don't/can't play the meta then you're bad.. wich is not true.

Situational awareness is the key, you can go crazy even with non-meta builds if you know when and where to strike.

Edited by Thrudvangar, 05 May 2018 - 03:19 AM.


#8 Zergling

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

View PostThrudvangar, on 05 May 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

What you are writing about the meta is, sorry, simply not true...

I know alot of ppl who are not playing with meta builds, including myself because they play better, even against competetives with loadout wich fit their playstyle better than the meta. And "need to learn" something you dont like makes your play not better but even worse because it's boring or whatever and makes ppl curse more about it.

Learning to play better is not = playing the meta.


The meta is always the most effective way to play, that is why it is the meta.

Sure players can be effective without using meta builds, but they will always be more effective with meta builds, provided they understand how to play those meta builds.



View PostThrudvangar, on 05 May 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

If the OP is successfull with it, why should he play meta? You can be successfull in other ways than using copy & paste builds.


Take a look at OP's stats; he is not 'successful'.

#9 Adam Mieter

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 06:53 PM

Wow, I guess I walked into that one, huh?

Alright, so just a little background story (I'll try to be short): I'm one of those guys who are never hardcore competitive, and wouldn't touch anything that people claim as 'meta' with a 10-foot pole. I don't need a second (or third, fourth, fifth...) job when I come home from my actual job, just to claim that I have X% more winrate than this-or-that-random-guy.

I play games to relax, to experiment with fun things, and to shoot people without going to jail. So, my objective in MWO when building a 'Mech is: when I press a bunch of buttons, other 'Mechs will blow up more often than not. If I achieve that goal, I consider that a success.
95% of my games are in Solo QP, rarely ever go in Faction Play, and never tried out Solaris. I started as the usual Tier 5 pilot, and spent quite a long time there. In the end, the above completely-not-meta-build-because-i-don't-even-know-what-the-meta-is-in-this-game, helped me immensely to get better at the Shadow Hawk. Slowly but surely I got to Tier 4, I got my first 1000 damage match and got close to it in more and more games, and I consistently reach the top 5 in the team, which is enough to get an equal symbol even if we lose the match. I would call that 'success'. Maybe that's not what a Zergling would define as 'success', but hey, we are all different, right?

Do I have time to play this game? Unfortunately I rarely get around to it, even though this is one of the best MP games I've ever played, with an in-game community that's just amazing. It is a true multiplayer game, because I really feel like I'm playing with other people, not just some drones sitting at a computer, Squelching others to save themselves from accidental virtual interactions (HearthStone players will get the reference).

So, who knows, maybe my build will help another Tier 5 guy, who tailors it to his/her own liking and finally starts getting better at shooting 'Mechs. Because at the end of the day, that's why we all play the game, no?

#10 Thrudvangar

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 09:14 PM

View PostAdam Mieter, on 05 May 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

Wow, I guess I walked into that one, huh?

Alright, so just a little background story (I'll try to be short): I'm one of those guys who are never hardcore competitive, and wouldn't touch anything that people claim as 'meta' with a 10-foot pole. I don't need a second (or third, fourth, fifth...) job when I come home from my actual job, just to claim that I have X% more winrate than this-or-that-random-guy.

I play games to relax, to experiment with fun things, and to shoot people without going to jail. So, my objective in MWO when building a 'Mech is: when I press a bunch of buttons, other 'Mechs will blow up more often than not. If I achieve that goal, I consider that a success.
95% of my games are in Solo QP, rarely ever go in Faction Play, and never tried out Solaris. I started as the usual Tier 5 pilot, and spent quite a long time there. In the end, the above completely-not-meta-build-because-i-don't-even-know-what-the-meta-is-in-this-game, helped me immensely to get better at the Shadow Hawk. Slowly but surely I got to Tier 4, I got my first 1000 damage match and got close to it in more and more games, and I consistently reach the top 5 in the team, which is enough to get an equal symbol even if we lose the match. I would call that 'success'. Maybe that's not what a Zergling would define as 'success', but hey, we are all different, right?

Do I have time to play this game? Unfortunately I rarely get around to it, even though this is one of the best MP games I've ever played, with an in-game community that's just amazing. It is a true multiplayer game, because I really feel like I'm playing with other people, not just some drones sitting at a computer, Squelching others to save themselves from accidental virtual interactions (HearthStone players will get the reference).

So, who knows, maybe my build will help another Tier 5 guy, who tailors it to his/her own liking and finally starts getting better at shooting 'Mechs. Because at the end of the day, that's why we all play the game, no?


Consider adding artemis to your mech if you have streaks. It reduces the time you get locks for your
streaks. Even if its not shown in the mechlab.

Otherwise, play what you want and what is fun for you...except boating lrms or such a s.hit ;)

And try to have not more than two or even three different weapon system. Less is more.
Normally all should have nearly the same optimal range for good alpha striking but thats another
Story and has nothing to do with your current mech, just for future build playing :)

#11 Adam Mieter

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 02:53 PM

Thanks Thrudvangar! I admittedly have an OCD when it comes to available hardpoints and module slots... I just want to fill them all, otherwise I always feel like the 'Mech is missing something. The problem is with me, I know :)))

Even though there are 5 weapon groups listed, I really only use 3 (AMS works on its own and the machine guns I only use when firing at unarmored parts to get a chance at some crits). So it's usually left click (RAC) + right click (SSRM) + Q (ML). Sometimes E for the LMGs.

I did originally start with Artemis, but because of my OCD problem, I needed more room so I ditched it. The targeting computer counteracts the lack of Artemis a little bit at least.

Thank you for all the suggestions, I'll take a look at the optimal ranges (I believe that was the reason why I replaced the HMGs with LMGs. A bit closer in range to the SSRMs. But I might remember wrong).

#12 Horseman

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostAdam Mieter, on 04 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Just figured I share my build that I really, really enjoy playing. Maybe someone will find it useful, who knows Posted Image
It is definitely a medium-short range brawler, so it is kind of useless on maps where people just dig in and try to snipe each other to death. This is the 'final' version, meaning that I haven't felt the need to change anything on this 'Mech for a long time now. So here it goes:

Armor: Standard
Heat Sinks: Double
Structure: Endo Steel
Missile Guidance: Standard

Weapon Group 1: Rotary AC/5 w/ 3.5 tons of ammo
Weapon Group 2: 1x Streak SRM 6 + 2x Streak SRM 2 w/ 2 tons of ammo
Weapon Group 3: Medium Laser
Weapon Group 4: 2x Light Machine Gun w/ 0.5 ton of ammo
Weapon Group 5: AMS w/ 1 ton of ammo

Engine: XL Engine 255

Extra Equipment: Beagle Active Probe, 2x Jump Jet, IS Targeting Computer Mk. I

Armor: 288/370
Heat Mgmt: 1.14/2
Firepower: 86.5/250
Speed: 78.5/52.3
Let me know what you guys think, it has served me well.

Okay, so...
1. 4 weapon groups is too much. In my experience, 3 groups are the maximum (and 2 are preferable).
2. Brawler with IS XL is very easy to kill. If you used a LFE, you could still be a threat with half your mech blown off.
3. Waaay too many disparate weapons. This build is jack of most trades, master of none.
4. From the bonuses you listed, it sounds like the same applies to much of your Skill Tree.

What I'd say: drop the LMGs and ML, then switch your SSRMs to SSRM-4s. If you want, put a TAG in place of the ML (helps with Streak lock-ons, as long as you're playing with arms unlocked), otherwise strip the arms to get more tonnage for engine/ammo/heat sinks.
Something along these lines:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...2e61d641b7b745c
https://mwo.smurfy-n...a7ebe9f722d5d6d

View PostAdam Mieter, on 05 May 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

Alright, so just a little background story (I'll try to be short): I'm one of those guys who are never hardcore competitive, and wouldn't touch anything that people claim as 'meta' with a 10-foot pole. I don't need a second (or third, fourth, fifth...) job when I come home from my actual job, just to claim that I have X% more winrate than this-or-that-random-guy.
I see where you're coming from - although I think a small misunderstanding has to be addressed.
Designing effective builds is not about following global meta, but specialization - you could say it's about finding your personal meta for whatever playstyle you perform best with and then capitalizing on it.
A non-meta build that specializes will still perform better in its' niche than a completely generalist build on the same chassis. If you like RACs, for example, you could strip most of your other armament and just put a RAC-2 in there in addition to your RAC-5.

View PostAdam Mieter, on 07 May 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

I did originally start with Artemis, but because of my OCD problem, I needed more room so I ditched it. The targeting computer counteracts the lack of Artemis a little bit at least.
You probably had SRMs or LRMs equipped then (which increase size and tonnage with Artemis). The only thing Artemis changes for Streaks is increasing the lock speed.

Edited by Horseman, 07 May 2018 - 09:25 PM.


#13 Thrudvangar

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 09:18 PM

Artemis won't use extra space on streaks (only). So you dont lose slot space but have a big lockup advantage.

And yes, wanna try using every single weapon slot can be frustrating and is also not allways
the best :) i did the same when i was new :)

I recommend re-skilling your skilltree too, you've got some nodes wich you don't really need, or not
that much of these "skills".

I'd skill it like this with the RAC5:
https://kitlaan.gitl...34f63#s=Weapons

Or this for better rockets and heat:
https://kitlaan.gitl...8be96#s=Weapons

For the sensors tree, 10 nodes are good since you're relatively fast and agile (back into cover).
For the operations tree, 11 nodes are good, wouldnt go any further ever.

Main thing is really survival and agility tree.

#14 The Schwartz

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:01 AM

Fun definatly needs to be at the top of the list. It's a game, it's meant to be enjoyed. There is an e-sports crowd and people who play for fun tend to get raged at. Now what i'd say about improving the build you have vs. changing the build entirely would be this. Streaks spread damage too much and weigh too much compared to their std versions. You can save some tonnage is all (bigger engine/more ammo/extra heatsinks..etc..)

But if you like the rotary ac/5 (who doesn't like to rain bullets?) i got a couple other suggestions without losing what ya got, more of pairing up weapons of simular range and leading profile)
Try running MRM's instead of streaks (simular range, take about the same lead on target). Machine guns are hitscan like lasers are so in my opinion do not compliment the RAC/5 very well as you have to lead with one while staying dead on target with the other but the dink dink dink of the bullets is always fun to troll with. All i'm saying is you can free up 2 tons without missing much (7damage over 10 seconds) though it maybe there for the extra crit chancing which in that case i'd definatly switch to MRM's (less damage per trigger pull than srm6's same weight, way better range and better crit chance) Also 300 ammo per ton instead of 100 so you can run a pair of mrm10's *20 damage* and 1 ton of ammo gives you 15 trigger pulls. Can toss in a rocket launcher in the head too for .5 a ton. (after putsing around a hair i came up with this) MRM30 is more heat viable MRM 40 is doable but I try to keep 1 ton of ammo per 10 MRM. sooo anyways.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...a0f05f029abc308
Yes it has an XL (which shadowhawk isn't horrible to have XL in) but putting your damage into the same area and is fast enough to get into striking positions (and out of them)

#15 Adam Mieter

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 06:36 PM

Horseman:

1. 4 weapon groups is too much. In my experience, 3 groups are the maximum (and 2 are preferable).

Yeah, I mostly use 3 groups, the LMGs are there for the increased crit chance and to pay homage to the MechWarrior 2 intro sequence. Posted Image))

2. Brawler with IS XL is very easy to kill. If you used a LFE, you could still be a threat with half your mech blown off.

I was considering that, but a 1:1 replacement for the XL 255 would be an LE 225. Top speed would be around 68 km/h, which sounds kinda terrible Posted Image Re-skilling toward Agility would probably boost it to 70, maybe?

3. Waaay too many disparate weapons. This build is jack of most trades, master of none.

Yeah, again, I blame my OCD when it comes to weapons. I tried to help myself and not use all hardpoints. I lasted for 2 games and filled them all up again. But, to be fair, looking through the armament, at least I got the ranges right. SSRM+ML+LMG are the same range (20m difference), the only outlier is the RAC. Do I get punished for using it under the optimal range?

Also, I'm afraid the 'jack of most trades, master of none' also defines my RL personality. I wasn't even specialized when I served in the military, I was supposed to be a weapons technician (=gunsmith) for small arms, but ended up working from pistols and machine guns through tank guns and artillery cannons to wire-guided missiles. While also helping out with computer problems. Lol. Now I work in IT, and have the same 'problem', haha! Posted Image

4. From the bonuses you listed, it sounds like the same applies to much of your Skill Tree.

My Skill Tree leans very heavily toward Firepower and Survival. I very much agree though that I really don't need crap like Advanced Zoom, and I could most likely ditch the Seismic Sensor as well, but... but... but... shiny electronics!!!

You probably had SRMs or LRMs equipped then (which increase size and tonnage with Artemis). The only thing Artemis changes for Streaks is increasing the lock speed.

Kudos to you, this is the same revelation to me as when I discovered that ES and FF won't stack. LOL! Thanks again!

Thrud:

Artemis won't use extra space on streaks (only). So you dont lose slot space but have a big lockup advantage.

Also a huge thank you for this, without you guys I probably wouldn't have realized this, ever.

And yes, wanna try using every single weapon slot can be frustrating and is also not allways
the best Posted Image i did the same when i was new Posted Image

Yeah, as I mentioned, it's more of a personal problem. I compare a not fully loaded 'Mech to a house that has a couple empty rooms. I just want to put stuff in it.

I recommend re-skilling your skilltree too, you've got some nodes wich you don't really need, or not
that much of these "skills".

Yeah, I agree, see above. Eventually I will ditch some unnecessary gadgets, thank you for the suggestions, they are indeed helpful!

Schwartz:

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from! I will play with the MRMs and see if that makes the build better! Thank you!

Edited by Adam Mieter, 08 May 2018 - 06:42 PM.


#16 Tesunie

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:06 PM

View PostAdam Mieter, on 08 May 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

Kudos to you, this is the same revelation to me as when I discovered that ES and FF won't stack. LOL! Thanks again!


ES and FF (any form of FF) do stack effects, decreasing overall weight of those components. The trade off is always the consumption of additional crit space.

This means that most all lights and most mediums tend to like running ES and FF at the same time. Heavy mechs tend to want Endo and rarely FF on top of it. Assaults sometimes don't even want Endo.

If you choose, always pick Endo first over FF. Endo always saves you more weight for the crit slots being taken.

#17 Thrudvangar

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:01 PM

Have fun Adam!
If you want to, add me ingame and we're dropping with our shadowhawks ;)





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