46 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Make it weigh 14 tons I don't care, just make it not suck as bad is it does.

* I am well aware that the current C-UAC20 weighs 12 tons.

Edited by JackalBeast, 08 May 2018 - 10:45 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

um the C-UAC20 weights 12Tons, so its already less than 14Tons,

[Brain Cancer]

The best thing they could do for CAC's is to remove the reminder of Paul's attempts at making ammo switching completely, the CAC/20 included.

It's garbage because it's not even a real weapon, just PGI's placeholder fail left in to add "content" to Clanners.

Andi Nagasia, on 08 May 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

um the C-UAC20 weights 12Tons, so its already less than 14Tons,

He wants it to be good even if it means making it 2 tons heavier.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 08 May 2018 - 07:46 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Clan tech has to suck. It's MWO. Even the C-AC's fire streams instead of the single shot that LBX would fire if they could switch ammo types in MWO. C-AC takes up the same number of critical slots as LBX so it is nerfed already, make it fire a single round like BattleTech says it would be.

[Jackal Noble]

Short of having the odd good game with it, the sheer spread action of and spacing of the 3 rounds makes it a really lackluster weapon.
Add a TC7? lol. That's sarcasm, much like the initial OP Andi.

Besides one shouldn't have to throw on a 7 ton item to make a weapon usable.
There's a reason that the C-LB20x is the only semi-viable weapon in the 20 series clan side.

Cue in "I get 1000+ damage on with my UAC-20 all the time. C-UAC20 is fine! git gud!"

[Battlemaster56]

I just want less heat a shorter jam time, also gh limit raise to 2 so I can fire two at a time.

[Brain Cancer]

Yeah, they're not gonna give people an easy way to dump 80 damage on something.

Unless it's lasers. Cause, y'know. Laservomit.

[LordNothing]

you can get 60 in a dire running all cacs, 10s and 20s. and you can fire twice without overheating.

for uacs i never count the double tap as part of the alpha, most of the time you cant do that without an overheat situation. any build that uses more than one uac10/20 can be as bad with heat as packing a huge laser alpha, for less damage, heavier weapons, and you have ammo to worry about too and you still need extra sinks. they arent as bad on the is side for some reason dispite having the same numbers for the most part. on the clan side i just use the cacs instead. uacs are for when you want more guns but cant afford the tonnage that would entail.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 May 2018 - 09:06 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 May 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

um the C-UAC20 weights 12Tons, so its already less than 14Tons,

[BTGbullseye]

TBH, the C-UAC20 is not that bad as long as you use trigger discipline, and don't just go around trying to rapid-fire it.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 08 May 2018 - 11:03 PM.

[visionGT4]

Doesnt uac20 trigger its own GH with double tap? If yeah bumping the GH limit woild be a good start

[BTGbullseye]

It triggers ghost heat for any UAC that is double-tapped within 500ms, if the fire count exceeds the GH limit.

[theta123]

Clan gauss= 2 slots smaller, 3 ton lighter. Exact same performance as IS gauss
Clan LB weapons= superior in size and tonnage compared to IS variants

[lazorbeamz]

Not really. Clan UAC are good exactly because they are extra light. 12 tons vs 15 tons and does the same alpha damage. That and the extra range. IS UAC have slightly better DPS with double tap and thats it. IS UAC20 is like 6.9 dps and clan UAC20 is ~6.4. The range and saved weight make it much more preferable.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 09 May 2018 - 12:32 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

lazorbeamz, on 09 May 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Not really. Clan UAC are good exactly because they are extra light.

Have you tried using them outside your mechlab?

[Jackal Noble]

theta123, on 08 May 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

Clan gauss= 2 slots smaller, 3 ton lighter. Exact same performance as IS gauss
Clan LB weapons= superior in size and tonnage compared to IS variants

That's great. This is isn't about Gauss. At all.

lazorbeamz, on 09 May 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Not really. Clan UAC are good exactly because they are extra light. 12 tons vs 15 tons and does the same alpha damage. That and the extra range. IS UAC have slightly better DPS with double tap and thats it. IS UAC20 is like 6.9 dps and clan UAC20 is ~6.4. The range and saved weight make it much more preferable.

Did you read and comprehend the OP at all?

[NimoStar]

PGI loves lasers and hates all other weapons, so...

(there's more laser types added than all other weapons combined. Also none of them are bad and their mechanics aren't nerfed.
If lasers were handled like Clan UAC and Clan ERPPC, they would have forced spread damage like automatically hitscanning targets instead of being deadly ammoless instahit precision weapons.)


* * *

Also clan gauss isn't exactly the same as IS one. It has way less HP and more chances to explode.


***

Anyways, I don't think clan UAC should be made heavier because then some builds I would like to try such as 2UAC20 Timberwolf and 2UAC20 Hunchback IIC would be completely out of the question.

Better idea: Compensate with lower rate of fire, and make it two shots instead of four.

Edited by NimoStar, 09 May 2018 - 05:21 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

NimoStar, on 09 May 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

PGI loves lasers and hates all other weapons, so...

(there's more laser types added than all other weapons combined. Also none of them are bad and their mechanics aren't nerfed.
If lasers were handled like Clan UAC and Clan ERPPC, they would have forced spread damage like automatically hitscanning targets instead of being deadly ammoless instahit precision weapons.)

In MWO there are 20 individual lasers in this game. Compare to 34 ballistics and 28 missiles (not counting Artemis upgrades).

By type, there are five classes of laser (Standard, ER, Pulse, Heavy, and TAG), six classes of ballistic (Standard AC, Ultra AC, Rotary AC, LB-X AC, Gauss, and MGs), and six classes of missile (LRM, SRM, Streak, ATM, MRM, and NARC).

Quote

* * *

Also clan gauss isn't exactly the same as IS one. It has way less HP and more chances to explode.


***

Health doesn't factor into it since cGauss is coded with a 100% chance to explode where the IS one is still 90%. That said, it's a token and meaningless delta.

Quote

Better idea: Compensate with lower rate of fire, and make it two shots instead of four.

Sure, as long as the range gets cut to 270 m and the IS one gets its own range bumped up to 360.

[NimoStar]

Quote

Sure, as long as the range gets cut to 270 m and the IS one gets its own range bumped up to 360.

Stop being such a blind loyalist... so you want the clan nerfed and the IS one boosted to the former clan value? How does that even make sense? Why does the IS UAC have to get stronger to balance clan UAC getting nerfed? . . .

Quote

In MWO there are 20 individual lasers in this game. Compare to 34 ballistics and 28 missiles (not counting Artemis upgrades).

By type, there are five classes of laser (Standard, ER, Pulse, Heavy, and TAG), six classes of ballistic (Standard AC, Ultra AC, Rotary AC, LB-X AC, Gauss, and MGs), and six classes of missile (LRM, SRM, Streak, ATM, MRM, and NARC).

False standard. You are comparing a type of weapon with a whole class of weapon. If you compare the whole energy with the whole missile, they are matched.
In your comparison NARC is the same as SRMs but Laser isn't the same as ERPPC.

You should compare, say, Lasers to LRM, which are weapons which all share the same mechanic. Even ATM and LRM mechanics are different, while all laser mechanics are exactly the same (TAG isn't considered a laser BTW)

Even counting Artemis as different, there are 8 total LRMs in any given faction (of which only 4 you can equip at the same time, VS as you say almost 20 lasers,

and ALL LRMs share alpha ghost heat penalties; max CLRM-5 is three, and they deal 5 spread damage max for an alpha of 15... in comparison, you can fire SIX medium lasers (pulse or normal) without ghost heat for an alpha of 42. And each is only one ton of weight and needs no ammo and has bonuses from TCs unlike missiles (their only bonuses from equipment is better chances to hit, which is already guaranteed for lasers, and they can't be shot down or covered by missiles and you don't get a "warning" that they are going to be fired at you to take cover). Plus you can fire OTHER small or large lasers with them without ghost heat for a near unlimited instahit alpha (2c heavy large laser +6 med pulse lasers + 2 micro pulse laser alpha and that is not even the max, over 80 dmg)

Now tell me about PGI's "balance" regarding lasers.

Edited by NimoStar, 09 May 2018 - 06:36 AM.

[Exilyth]

I'd give all C-UACs a small velocity buff.

LordNothing, on 08 May 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

you can get 60 in a dire running all cacs, 10s and 20s. and you can fire twice without overheating.

1x UAC20
2x UAC10
2x UAC5

Alpha: 50 dmg
Double tap: 100 dmg

Isn't affected by ghost heat, but VERY low on ammo (~1.5t* per UAC).
edit: forget the ghost heat part - double tapping the uac10s triggers ghost heat


Could also go with 4x UAC20 and chainfire, but that's not worth it because you only get 2.5t* of ammo.


*w/max armour

Edited by Exilyth, 09 May 2018 - 02:13 PM.