46 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

Viktor Drake, on 10 May 2018 - 05:15 AM, said:

Its a rabbit hole because there are alot of problems with AC's.

First all UAC's got nerfed because of 1 mech, the KDK-3 which subsequently was nerfed to the point that it really doesn't need a UAC nerf to rein it in. IS UAC got wrapped up in the C-UAC simply because they came out after the UAC nerfs.

Second, CAC's are STILL a placeholder weapon that PGI just forgot about. No real attempt was made to actually make them useful and they aren't, not even in the slightest. Hell they even take up more crit slots than a C-UAC despite being vastly inferior to them and there is absolute no Battletech equivalent of them so PGI could use artistic license to their hearts content to make them useful.

Three. The Ghost heat on AC/20 and many of its variants came about when it was perceived that a 40 damage pin point alpha was too powerful. This was before we had a 50 damage pin point alpha added to the game in the form of Heavy Gauss. It is also from before the tech upgrade which added a ton of power creep to the game. The concept is now obsolete and really needs to go away. Having ghost heat triggered when using just 2 of these weapons is just too limiting anymore in the face of current builds using other weapons systems. I mean It is pretty easy to pump out 70-80 point alphas, especially with Clan weapons and while those alpha come with duration attached, even if your able to hold your lasers on a target for only part of the beam duration, your still able to apply 40-50 damage before the beams drift off targets.

So yeah, huge rabbit hole. It is pretty much time for a balance pass on ACs in the game.

CAC have an obvious role. They are more heat effective when compared to the UAC. Especially the CAC10 which is 5 damage per heat when compared to 3.33 DPH for IS AC10 and ~2.6 for UAC.

Also 4 x CAC10 KDK 3 exists because CAC 10 have relaxed GH rules.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 10 May 2018 - 09:23 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

lazorbeamz, on 10 May 2018 - 09:23 AM, said:

CAC have an obvious role. They are more heat effective when compared to the UAC. Especially the CAC10 which is 5 damage per heat when compared to 3.33 DPH for IS AC10 and ~2.6 for UAC.

Also 4 x CAC10 KDK 3 exists because CAC 10 have relaxed GH rules.

Have you actually tested their viability though?

I did, last night. While CAC's aren't exactly useless, they aren't good either.

First, they take up more crit space than a comparable sized UAC. Second, even with jamming, the sustained DPS that you can output with UAC's ,more then compensates for not having to worry about jam. Third, they are hard to aim with. Not only do you have to lead you target, but you also have to compensate for the fact that there is a delay between the 1st shell fired and the last shell fired. You still have that with UACs but their rate of fair means you can adjust kind of mid burst and get at least a few shells on target.

Now sure they are more heat efficient but because they take up more slots, I ended up having to drop 2 DHS on my CAC build to fit them on the same mech I was running UAC's on which means any heat advantage I got from having the CACs on the build was offset by the fact I had to remove DHS to accommodate their size.

[lazorbeamz]

I have CAC 10 on MAD-II with 4 erll and 2 cac10. 4 erll are extremely hot and CAC are always nice to fall back to. they also have superior range. 600+ meters full damage. UAC on this build would be absurd. The overheating is too much.

KDK3 with 4 CAC 10 and 3 erml is pretty good.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 10 May 2018 - 10:01 AM.

[Humpday]

I can't stand the clan/is UAC20 line of cannons. You can't put all the rounds in one place if the target is moving at all, this leads to you double tapping which more often than not, jamming.

Not a fan. The only UACs i find sane are the ac2 lines bc they unjam so fast and the uac10 line.

[Brain Cancer]

Viktor Drake, on 10 May 2018 - 05:15 AM, said:

Second, CAC's are STILL a placeholder weapon that PGI just forgot about. No real attempt was made to actually make them useful and they aren't, not even in the slightest. Hell they even take up more crit slots than a C-UAC despite being vastly inferior to them and there is absolute no Battletech equivalent of them so PGI could use artistic license to their hearts content to make them useful.

Or, you know they could just put canon PACs in the game instead and not have the CAC exist at all. It'd even mean some lighter ballistic options in the process.

[Battlemaster56]

Brain Cancer, on 10 May 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

Or, you know they could just put canon PACs in the game instead and not have the CAC exist at all. It'd even mean some lighter ballistic options in the process.

Yeah and the damage is not bad since their 1-2 points of damage less, but still usuable.

But still I'm actually leaning into CAC 2 and 10's since they pretty cool running and have constant dps without interruptions due to jams, I just want the UAC 20 to be cooler and jam less overall I can deal with velocity but the other two drawbacks really make turn away from this weapon.

[Khobai]

CUACs jam way too much, thats their biggest problem right now

they need lower jam rate but also longer cooldown to balance the lower jam rate.

that would increase the reliability of the weapon while keeping the dps output approximately the same

Quote

Or, you know they could just put canon PACs in the game instead and not have the CAC exist at all. It'd even mean some lighter ballistic options in the process.

theres no reason to remove CACs when they can be made into useful weapons.

CACs need to fire single slugs. But with longer cooldown, more heat, and lower velocity than the ISACs to balance out the lower tonnage/crit usage.

Thats preferable to sticking protomech autocannons on regular mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 10 May 2018 - 02:54 PM.