19 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Basically, the conclusion is that there are more players due to BattleTech, with majority of them new to try out the game, while veteran population decreased.

Which got me thinking after that point and after watching Rising Superstar FioraBunny on Stream, it got me thinking...

The main page of MWO is REALLY not user friendly. Like, AT ALL.

FP, QP, Solaris... start buttons all over the place. Multiple activities without clear indication of how to engage any of them...

For veterans, that's a non-issue. But if we want to attain new players beyond the initial stage of QP Stompey Robit action (with more in-depth coordinated play like FP or self-challenge like Solaris), there needs to be a system in place to explain all the functionality a little bit (a lot) better.

So I was thinking, is it finally time for PGI to create a tutorial for navigating the main screen? Like I played Mobile games and there are literally tutorials where they highlight where to click, follow by a brief description of what the click does.

[STEF_]

I don't know how you can say there are more players, when real numbers say the opposite.

[TLBFestus]

I think you are probably right in your assessment. Initial loss of veterans and an increase in new players thanks to BT.

Problem is that the Veterans that eventually return aren't really a "net gain" to the population, they will just come back.

I just don't think that the retention of New Players is going to be in any way significant in the long run because the two games are so different and the New Player experience sucks balls.

[STEF_]

TLBFestus, on 11 May 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think you are probably right in your assessment. Initial loss of veterans and an increase in new players thanks to BT.

Problem is that the Veterans that eventually return aren't really a "net gain" to the population, they will just come back.

I just don't think that the retention of New Players is going to be in any way significant in the long run because the two games are so different and the New Player experience sucks balls.

probably or not probably?

Numbers don't lie

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

And the important thing IS NOT the number of players, BUT the "average games played per season".

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 11 May 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[Humpday]

This game really only appeals to an older generation(BT generation is early/mid 30s and later now) + their kin.
Most people dont' know what Battletech and MWO is. Whos suppose to know about big stompy robot when there is ZERO coverage on any news outlets.

Also, BT does not translate well to MWO. Take for instance the Atlas, King Crab and Highlander....amazing in BT right?...mediocre/ok/bad depending on driver.

And anyone trying to pick up one of those as a first mech is going to be in for a very very bad initial MWO experience. Which would pretty much put them off of the game.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I've never had anything to do with BT.

[Bud Crue]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

probably or not probably?

Numbers don't lie

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/stats

And the important thing IS NOT the number of players, BUT the "average games played per season".

According to Russ there is roughly a 100K monthly logins. Based on discussions with others it seems that there is a vibe (can’t be more precise than that since this is all subjective from here) of a lot of new folks as well as a lot of casual users who just don’t meet the 10 games per month criteria of the leader boards. They come in, maybe play a few matches here and there, and then log out. Some repeat monthly, some never return but are replaced by others to the extent that the 100K monthly logins is fairly consistent over the life of the game and even growing at the moment (again according to Russ).

Anyway. I agree with you that actual playing population seems lower, but then again that is just my subjective view, and one which is heavily biased since I only consistently play groups queue where its pretty much the same folks and has been for years.

If interested in Russ’s comments and the view of those of us who were interested in understanding them see:
https://www.reddit.c...ame=OutreachHPG
His original forum post is linked in the OP.

Edited by Bud Crue, 11 May 2018 - 09:52 AM.

[Edustaja]

Opening supply caches is "very well" hidden for such a prominent feature.

[Humpday]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

According to Russ there is roughly a 100K monthly logins.

Logins is not the metric we/they should be using as it does not translate into user experience.
Concurrent users at any given point in time is the correct metric as it provides insight into player retention.

Doesn't matter if there are 1 million new users...if none of them stay or play consistently to drive the overall population at any given time frame up....that metric is moot. Basically that number is smoke and mirrors, attempting to divert attention from the actual active players at any given moment.

Admittedly however, there is a possibility that the percentage of those signups, are helping to PREVENT decreasing population, as those new people may be coming in at a similar rate as the people leaving the game. So basically new signups can be heling to just stabilize the active player base....but not necessarily improving the overall numbers.

We're also limited on our side for as to the actual metrics. So any conversation here is really kinda moot since its all just conjecture. We don't have access to all the information we need to do proper analysis.

[mistlynx4life]

I feel like some day, when they finally shut down the servers, there's just going to be this final post titled The Numbers We Never Shared With You and the subtitle will be PSR, TTK, Population, and more!.

It's just going to be a giant meme that says "All the people on the forums were right all along" with a link for 50% off Aloe Vera purchases.

[STEF_]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

According to Russ there is roughly a 100K monthly logins. Based on discussions with others it seems that there is a vibe (can’t be more precise than that since this is all subjective from here) of a lot of new folks as well as a lot of casual users who just don’t meet the 10 games per month criteria of the leader boards. They come in, maybe play a few matches here and there, and then log out. Some repeat monthly, some never return but are replaced by others to the extent that the 100K monthly logins is fairly consistent over the life of the game and even growing at the moment (again according to Russ).

Anyway. I agree with you that actual playing population seems lower, but then again that is just my subjective view, and one which is heavily biased since I only consistently play groups queue where its pretty much the same folks and has been for years.

If interested in Russ’s comments and the view of those of us who were interested in understanding them see:
https://www.reddit.c...ame=OutreachHPG
His original forum post is linked in the OP.

Yep, having a lot of players that log in BUT don't play at least 10 matches per month to enter the leaderboard is very sad and very bad.
(see the average game played per month...sinking)

[Papaspud]

The big problem with those numbers is, a lot of those players are second and third accounts....... kind of skews the stats.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

It's the veterans that kept the community together. They ran the 3rd party events and tournaments which kept anyone worth playing against interested in the game.

If we see player run Solaris leagues, invite only or open, like how Blood Bowl 2 works, I think you'd get more people interacting with the game for more than a few drops a week.

[Bud Crue]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 May 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

Yep, having a lot of players that log in BUT don't play at least 10 matches per month to enter the leaderboard is very sad and very bad.
(see the average game played per month...sinking)

Well, Russ seems to think that the login numbers being consistent is pretty great. Beats me though. I only know what I experience in game and am not going to try and extrapolate beyond that. Good or bad or sad, is beyond my salt rank (I try and limit my ire towards false balance (i.e. nerfs to my stuff) and misrepresentations regarding same by devs...and of course CW). This whole industry level analysis of MAU and DAU and PCU and whatever is just interesting to me. Folks have been saying this game is doomed pretty regularly, and without any sort of statistical basis for those assertions, and its still here, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As to the OP (trying to get back on track here), Hell YES it is time that PGI spent some time on providing tutorials on how to use their various interfaces, and basic game concepts beyond the Academy.

[neofightr]

You folks do realize this game will never be another world of tanks right?

The learning curve is too steep to appeal to the battlefield,COD, Warthunder and WoT crowds.

This is a niche genre so these numbers you guys keep complaining about are pretty respectable.

Unless we have a hollywood blockbuster movie like "transformers" based on the world of mechwarrior, the niche audience of battletech will not grow much from where it's currently at.

Thankfully the recent B-tech game has brought MW fans back to this game, I left this game shortly after release because I was not impressed with content, now 5 years later, I am enjoying the game immensely. It's keeping me from finishing the b-tech game.

The two major flaws I see right now are a front-end UI begging to be revised (scalable resolution for 4k, better placement of key info, etc) and a jump-in game mode because these 2-3 minute pre-game wait times are taking away from the appeal.

I am sure the devs have their reasons but if they want to have greater appeal to the FPS fans they need to change their approach. The quicker into the action the greater appeal of the game.

It would'nt hurt to add-in a PvE option either.

I suspect we will see a significant bump in numbers after MW5 releases next year to scratch that multiplayer itch.

Edited by neofightr, 11 May 2018 - 08:51 PM.

[STEF_]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Well, Russ seems to think that the login numbers being consistent is pretty great. Beats me though. I only know what I experience in game and am not going to try and extrapolate beyond that. Good or bad or sad, is beyond my salt rank (I try and limit my ire towards false balance (i.e. nerfs to my stuff) and misrepresentations regarding same by devs...and of course CW). This whole industry level analysis of MAU and DAU and PCU and whatever is just interesting to me. Folks have been saying this game is doomed pretty regularly, and without any sort of statistical basis for those assertions, and its still here, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As to the OP (trying to get back on track here), Hell YES it is time that PGI spent some time on providing tutorials on how to use their various interfaces, and basic game concepts beyond the Academy.

Basing in my experience, both (Russ and real datas) are true.

Average games played are there, see numbers, but from what I see, even Russ can be right: I see a lot more noobs in games, much much more than before.

ANd yes, if new players are trying MWO, but then they fly away, is a big big problem.
One of this, of course, is the missing tutorial. There is no tutorial or guide.
Another one is PGI itself, not admitting PSR and tiers have been a great fail.

Now "everybody" is in tier 1, which is pretty stoopid, because.....tiers are not meant to give players a good balance during matches.. There are tier 1 players not even having positive kdr or wlr! LOL

And this, once again, kills newbies experiences. I met ppl admitting to have tier 4, in my drops. Why?

[Anjian]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Well, Russ seems to think that the login numbers being consistent is pretty great. Beats me though. I only know what I experience in game and am not going to try and extrapolate beyond that. Good or bad or sad, is beyond my salt rank (I try and limit my ire towards false balance (i.e. nerfs to my stuff) and misrepresentations regarding same by devs...and of course CW). This whole industry level analysis of MAU and DAU and PCU and whatever is just interesting to me. Folks have been saying this game is doomed pretty regularly, and without any sort of statistical basis for those assertions, and its still here, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As to the OP (trying to get back on track here), Hell YES it is time that PGI spent some time on providing tutorials on how to use their various interfaces, and basic game concepts beyond the Academy.

I feel that the game is sustainable for now. I play with all three servers marked --- didn't matter if I get 350ms ping, some of my best QP games are on slow ping --- and I get into a QP match fairly quickly. Since I play on the Asian side, I cannot rely on the NA server alone, which would have a low population on the mornings, but on the European and Oceanic servers. This despite Solaris 7 and Faction Warfare mode that divides the player base. I may assume that FW appears nearly dead, and S7 is losing steam.

[Anjian]

neofightr, on 11 May 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

You folks do realize this game will never be another world of tanks right?

The learning curve is too steep to appeal to the battlefield,COD, Warthunder and WoT crowds.

This is a niche genre so these numbers you guys keep complaining about are pretty respectable.

Unless we have a hollywood blockbuster movie like "transformers" based on the world of mechwarrior, the niche audience of battletech will not grow much from where it's currently at.

Thankfully the recent B-tech game has brought MW fans back to this game, I left this game shortly after release because I was not impressed with content, now 5 years later, I am enjoying the game immensely. It's keeping me from finishing the b-tech game.

The two major flaws I see right now are a front-end UI begging to be revised (scalable resolution for 4k, better placement of key info, etc) and a jump-in game mode because these 2-3 minute pre-game wait times are taking away from the appeal.

I am sure the devs have their reasons but if they want to have greater appeal to the FPS fans they need to change their approach. The quicker into the action the greater appeal of the game.

It would'nt hurt to add-in a PvE option either.

I suspect we will see a significant bump in numbers after MW5 releases next year to scratch that multiplayer itch.

Robot warfare need not be a niche genre. It just needs to be on the right platform, need to be accessible, and most of all, fun to play.

First, there needs to be a realization that stompy robot game isn't = Mechwarrior, its Robot game > Mechwarrior. In fact, at this point it can't be said that Mechwarrior is the most visible representative of the genre. Something else has taken over.


http://www.pocketgam...-of-war-robots/

Pixonic's War Robots reached a peak in excess of 1.5 million DAU. That's not MAU, that's DAU or Daily Active Users. On Google Play alone it has over 50 million downloads, and it might have a near equal number on the Apple App Store. This doesn't count Facebook Gameroom and Steam downloads. It consistently grosses in the top 100 of Google Play in terms of revenue, and 2.8 million has made their reviews on Google Play.

Its also solidly beating Wargaming's mobile releases, such as World of Tanks Blitz and World of Warships Blitz.

The game has its drawbacks, mainly it has a highly monetized design to separate you from your wallet. But that's true of most mobile games lately. But it also advertises heavily, its easy to pick up and play, the mechanics is very understandable. There are only a limited amount of mechs in the game but each of them have strong distinguishing traits. It has a strong appeal to a large part of the world where MWO and BT is nearly absent, that is the Asian including China, Japan, and Korea; Middle East, and Latin America markets. Many players never heard of Mechwarrior, Battletech, played MW4 or otherwise, but they may have seen Gundam and other anime mecha in TV. Many players are young and millennials, a whole new generation that BT/MW is completely missing on.

Mobile will continue to grow as the biggest gaming market. The Battletech or Mechwarrior franchise needs to have a hit representative in this platform. It doesn't need a movie. It needs a mobile hit.

Edited by Anjian, 11 May 2018 - 11:02 PM.

[Sigmar Sich]

I did put 120+ hours in BT campaign before i even updated MWO to S7 patch... BT is far from perfect, but it is truly Battletech, and a really nice game. And it will become even better.

Wish i could say that last part about MWO too.

Why player base decreasing? I guess it is because CW/FP is the only "end-game"-ish content, and it is in really bad shape. You can wait only so many years, before losing hope the game will get better. And without decent "end-game" content, or hope for it, there is no sense for veterans to stick, aside from irregular drunk runs.

S7 was good idea (though i would prefer free-for-all to be included), but it is only a distraction.

[Anjian]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 May 2018 - 09:48 PM, said:

Basing in my experience, both (Russ and real datas) are true.

Average games played are there, see numbers, but from what I see, even Russ can be right: I see a lot more noobs in games, much much more than before.

ANd yes, if new players are trying MWO, but then they fly away, is a big big problem.
One of this, of course, is the missing tutorial. There is no tutorial or guide.
Another one is PGI itself, not admitting PSR and tiers have been a great fail.

Now "everybody" is in tier 1, which is pretty stoopid, because.....tiers are not meant to give players a good balance during matches.. There are tier 1 players not even having positive kdr or wlr! LOL

And this, once again, kills newbies experiences. I met ppl admitting to have tier 4, in my drops. Why?

This game is impenetrable --- the adjective best described to me --- to many players because of the complex mechanics, if one had no experience with any previous BT/MW game in the PC or table top. I doubt that a better tutorial would solve this problem. The problem is a franchise level one because of its core mechanics.

The answer to that is to have another game in the franchise that needs to introduce, then "soak" the players into the mechanics and the lore. The HBS BT game can fulfill that function though it maybe a niched one, the HBS/BT game will screen and filter players out from the franchise if their commitment and interest are not deep enough, ensuring only more committed converts will stay. That's not going to produce huge numbers for the franchise, but it may keep it going for a while.