572 replies to this topic

[o0cipher0o]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 14 May 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

Calm down, you're late to the party. The Ghost heat changes are already said to be reverted.

Yup, didn't think about checking twitter before posting :V.

[Dee Eight]

Keshav Murali, on 12 May 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

Just a correction: 1X is the HGR variant, but no one runs dual HGR on the 2A. It's all Dakka there. 5UAC5 or 2UAC5 2UAC10 or 6UAC2 etc. (and 5LBX10 for solaris)

2A was easily the best variant. These nerfs won't affect it too much.

EXCEPT...1x isn't the most popular for dual HGR... 2A is... because most players didn't buy the reinforcement packs...

[Nema Nabojiv]

Dee Eight, on 14 May 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

EXCEPT...1x isn't the most popular for dual HGR... 2A is... because most players didn't buy the reinforcement packs...

Of course it is. Annihiltors are out for cbills months ago.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 14 May 2018 - 06:10 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Yes but the dual HGR build has been around since the mechs released...and it was being done on 2As the majority of the time, and still is. Just because YOU use a 1X, doesn't mean the majority of players use a 1X. Its because the 2A is being used more often than the 1X for dual HGR that that variant is losing more torso armor than the other one. Why was this math so difficult for you to understand ?

Edited by Dee Eight, 14 May 2018 - 06:42 AM.

[Cannon Fodder 83]

When are we expected to have a fix for the sound pak the voices that let you know when you are for example getting a torso destroyed or a weapon arrives by voice 1 minute later after the fact as well as the rotary or machine gun sound constantly erupts in sound after you died and throughout the rest of the match while viewing your teammates.. Also in the map frozen city under the bridge near the corners seems to be a invisible wall you get stuck on, that could render some attention as well.

[Kodyn]

So...nothing changes with PGI... Players hate maps with poor performance- PGI releases more maps with fog, day/night, really ugly trees...and now a city map that looks like it got ripped out of a N64 or PS1 game, that they admit will have poor performance...

Do you literally have nothing else to do with your time and resources? I'd be happier to hear they paid a guy to collect Russ's toenail clippings than design that map. Good job.

Glad to see the laser changes pulled, but they shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place. PGI still can't figure out how to balance their own game this many years later? I just don't even have words for it...How can you design a game and just be that bad at the continued development of it? PGI definitely need some kind of award or acknowledgement for that, it's a special skill.

I don't want to have to have so much bad stuff to say about them, but PGI seem to enjoy doing things as epicly badly as possible, just to see our reaction. No one is this dumb or bad at their own job without it being intentional, they'd never still have a job. They're trolling us. Has to be. I'm going to go with that for now on. PGI aren't really the biggest idiots in game developing, they're just masterful trolls. It's less stressful this way.

[Vanguard836]

From the look of the Blood Asp scale comparison, the shoulder pods are still too low compared to the concept and way too short

[Nema Nabojiv]

So, they removed laser and mk2 changes. Aaand they still nerf annies. Because obviously solaris it the right place to measure mech performance.

[Holy Jackson]

I really didn't see many people complaining about a yaw nerf on the mkII. I don't know why that was reverted. It was fine.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Holy Jackson, on 14 May 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I really didn't see many people complaining about a yaw nerf on the mkII. I don't know why that was reverted. It was fine.

Fine to nerf cbill available mech as soon as a mechpack with its replacement released? mmkay.

[Sevronis]

Though I'm in an IS loyalist unit, I do play both techs. Frankly, the nerfs about the clan laser GH don't bother me. And yes, I know they did not end up going live. All the crying I'm seeing about not being able to fire more lasers all at once is just hilarious and just proves that meta and high alpha builds are just crutches. A lot of the good players use meta, because that's apparently the only way to be good. Rarely do I ever have a 1-2 weapon group build, and when I do, it's because of lack of builds options. Only 1 HLL before ghost heat? Okay, one of my TBR and MCII has dual HLL on the same weapon group. I did fire them together, sure, but if the nerf went live? Chain fire. Big deal, and my DHS could handle it better anyway. If I want to fire both at the same time (and everything else), that's what the Alpha Strike keymap is for. Only 4 HML instead of 5? or 5 ERML instead of 7? Okay, I haven't built a loadout that uses more than 4 HML anyway (IIRC at least, and if I did, they use different weapon groups), and I've usually split ERML into 2 groups for left and right sides anyway, or torso as 1 group and arms as another, or maybe 3 groups for L/R arms and torso (if a MLAS-only boat for example). It's called heat management. While you high alpha laser vomits just keep alpha-striking and heating up quick and needing to cool down, I'll just keep firing at you. None of those nerfs would have effected my play style if they ended up going live. The MCII nerf? Don't really think it will even matter. Faster mechs would get outside my arc before anyway, and maybe some heavies. That would make sense. I wouldn't have a problem with keeping a heavier/slower mech in my arc either way. Would also make sense. That's why you keep changing your direction, turns, backpedals, etc to adjust.

So as far as I'm concerned, they can put the Clan nerfs back in for all I care. I'll still play them, because I play them how I want to play them, regardless of the meta. And anything that makes the meta cry is okay in my book.

[ExoForce]

EvangelX, on 13 May 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

says it all

PGI Shocking Interview

Good laugh. Irony.

[Dee Eight]

Nema Nabojiv, on 14 May 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Fine to nerf cbill available mech as soon as a mechpack with its replacement released? mmkay.

Are you new ? that's been their modus operandi for years now

[Grim 13]

Sevronis, on 14 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Though I'm in an IS loyalist unit, I do play both techs. Frankly, the nerfs about the clan laser GH don't bother me. And yes, I know they did not end up going live. All the crying I'm seeing about not being able to fire more lasers all at once is just hilarious and just proves that meta and high alpha builds are just crutches. A lot of the good players use meta, because that's apparently the only way to be good.

Meta is meta for a reason... if you wanna stay competitive at higher levels of play, you're kind of pushed into using it or end up nerfing yourself. And no, I'm not excusing the lack of creativity stemming from the practice of looking up meta and copying it (I personally like letting loose with my creativity tyvm)

Sevronis, on 14 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

If I want to fire both at the same time (and everything else), that's what the Alpha Strike keymap is for. Only 4 HML instead of 5? or 5 ERML instead of 7?

Actually, it would've been 3 HML and 4 ERML if you want to avoid GH, but that's besides the point, as the primary cause of complaints is that one side's laser vomit is being nerfed, while the other side's stays unchanged; said changes resulting in even worse balance.
Besides all that, laser vomit is no better than ballistic or missile vomit, one of the reasons laser vomit is popular among good players is that they tend to survive in the fight long enough to otherwise spend all their ammo and would need to throw their 'mech away instead of staying in the fight.

P.S. Since you're talking a lot about you, and your experiences, what is your playstyle anyway? You strike me as a facetanker

Edited by Grim 13, 14 May 2018 - 01:45 PM.

[D V Devnull]

Well, it's now been 19.75 pages of conversation, with too much of it being people tearing each other's heads off. It's sad when a Monthly Patch Discussion gets like this.


Anywho, having read through all of it, only one good solution stuck out to me...

Increasing the Base Armor/Structure Values to an additional multiple
of TableTop, on the order of at least '4x TT Values', in order to properly
increase the Time-To-Kill on Mechs during any given Match.

...as doing so would also allow an overload of the Nerfs that have happened to finally be undone. This would mean that things like...

• Increased Mission Clock Time (on the order of 20 Minutes for Quick Play & Scouting, More for Invasion Matches)
  
• Increasing LRM Baseline Range by 50 Meters
  
• Increasing ALL Missile Weapon Health
  
• Narrowing Missile Spread back to more viable and useful values
  
• Energy Weaponry being returned more to TableTop Levels (Less Heat, better Cooldowns/Durations/Damage!)
  
• Decreased Ghost Heat Penalties
  
• Unlinking of Ghost Heat Penalty Groups
  
• Restoration of 3x Range Limits on multiple Ballistic Weapons, particularly on the Clan Side
  
• <<A Metric 100 Tons more of things I haven't listed here because they're not coming to my mind right now!!!>>

...could then all be allowed to happen rather easily. Frankly, I think that lengthening out matches through the manner of Adding Armor/Structure to those extents could make MWO far more capable of being a Tactical "Thinking Man's" Shooter than it ever has been. This game has been suffering endlessly from everyone trying to rush things, yet it was the longer length of time available in Missions back in MW2/MW3 (and probably the other ones as well) which removed the "Pressure Cooker" feeling and made those older games rather enjoyable. I would like to see that great level of enjoyability come to MWO, and put an end to this Balancing Insanity that keeps happening. Right now, everything's such an overly speed-loaded rush that it's hurting the growth of the Player Base (as well as retaining older players, who feel like they're bashing their heads off a stone wall) because those incoming can't spend time learning properly in order to be able to play well with others.


I've said my piece now, and I'm tired out for a bit, so after I post this I will be stepping out for a bit. I have to admit, even with the Warning on the incoming Solaris City map, I still want to check it out and try to help PGI tune it up. And it will be fun to check out the Solaris Mode maps on the Testing Grounds too. Then there's tearing up people who are freshly checking out their Blood Asp Mechs, to which I hope there will be a corresponding Event added both for those who purchased and those who will be hunting them down. Anywho, pardon me, for I'm going to scoot now. <*suddenly falls over*> *facefloor*


~Mr. D. V. "Really only seeing one ultimate solution to all the madness..." Devnull





(p.s.: By the way, I'm not trying to ram this opinion at anyone. Please do NOT take it that way. I'm just mentally overloaded after trudging through more than 395 posts.)

[Grus]

I'm just glad they took it out of this patch. Thank you PGI.

[BTGbullseye]

I agree that doubling the existing armor levels is a good idea. Though leaving the weapons (apart from LRM/ATM, which really need some help) where they are now is also a good idea.

[Sevronis]

Grim 13, on 14 May 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Meta is meta for a reason... if you wanna stay competitive at higher levels of play, you're kind of pushed into using it or end up nerfing yourself. And no, I'm not excusing the lack of creativity stemming from the practice of looking up meta and copying it (I personally like letting loose with my creativity tyvm)


Actually, it would've been 3 HML and 4 ERML if you want to avoid GH, but that's besides the point, as the primary cause of complaints is that one side's laser vomit is being nerfed, while the other side's stays unchanged; said changes resulting in even worse balance.
Besides all that, laser vomit is no better than ballistic or missile vomit, one of the reasons laser vomit is popular among good players is that they tend to survive in the fight long enough to otherwise spend all their ammo and would need to throw their 'mech away instead of staying in the fight.

P.S. Since you're talking a lot about you, and your experiences, what is your playstyle anyway? You strike me as a facetanker

1. The fact that meta is meta for a reason is what doesn't make the game fun for me most of the time. Having to conform to a cookie cutter build that apparently easy mode. This is why I call it a crutch. I'd like to see how they would do if they couldn't alpha strike, or could only fire a certain number of weapons at a time, could only use stock loadouts, or whatever other restriction it took. If they still managed to own players without relying on meta, only then would I consider them good enough. Otherwise it's like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. Who do you think would win? Let's not start about the d-bags who just gotta be d-bags about their victory. Having said all that, I do have meta mechs built, but only really use them when I play with my comp team.. and only because I don't give enough of a **** to argue with the leader. Outside of comp, I rarely use them, unless I just really like the mech or it has a build that actually works best for me (about 90% of meta builds don't). I would rather use what I'm comfortable with and even do better with.

2. As for my playstyle, I multi-role, but favor sniping. Also, even if I use a meta build, I may make my own small tweaks, like adding backup energy somehow on a completely ammo-dependent build. I also use 3 or 4 weapon groups, in which typically L/R arms are L/R mouse buttons, and torso(s) are Back/Forward thumb buttons respectively for torso weapons. I don't play assym if I can help it and I think stripping armor off a shield arm is a waste as I could use that arm longer with armor on it. I use weapon variety, and alternate similar weapon groups, maybe same time when heat neutral. I'm all about that heat management to keep firing without having to hide to cool off often. This is more true when I brawl as I won't have much luxury to hide and cool off. When I range I may fire all that can reach the distance I need, never touching short range weapons unless someone gets close. I also like to have mixed ranges most times, but my brawlers tend to be med-short. Does that answer your question?

EDIT: Okay, guess I misread about how many lasers before ghost heat occurred. Got the HLL one right though probably because I saw it mentioned a few times due to the Blood Asp. >.>. Ether way, still adaptable.

Edited by Sevronis, 14 May 2018 - 03:03 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Dee Eight, on 14 May 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

Are you new ? that's been their modus operandi for years now

I know, but I am not ok with it.

And speaking of nerfing old mechs. Merely a month since fafnir release, and its direct competitor Annihilator-1X loses 5 armor everywhere. GGWP Chris, very subtle.

[-Spectre]

Glad to see the clan laser nerf removed. I will definitely be playing the PTS to test out their changes, but that was too much to send live immediately. My advice for that is: leave the HLLs alone, and reduce the mediums to 5 without GH (in their weird wording, reduce the minimum penalty to 6). But if they are going to nerf the HLLs because "it can do higher than 30 damage with two at a time," then make it so you can only shoot one heavy gauss at a time. I don't want that: lore builds had dual heavy gauss, and you can bet that they shot both at the same time in the lore (same with the HLLs...), but at least be consistent.
Dual HLL=36 damage for 32 heat over 1.55 seconds.
Dual heavy gauss=50 damage for 4 heat over 0 seconds, or .75 seconds if you count the charge time.
Just sayin'.
Also, the recycle time is faster on the heavy gauss, but I left that out because of space and tonnage considerations, no tthat I needed to. If one gets the bat, both need to get it. But if neither get it, then YAY!

But the real reason I started writing this post is this: Why in Kerensky's name did they only announce the removal on Russ's twitter?!?!? I had to wade through the first half of these forum posts to find someone who mentioned it, then wade through MWO's twitter, only to not find it, then wade through Russ's twitter before I found it. Surely I am not the only player that does not use social media. I would have had no idea, and would likely have changed my mechs without knowing that I did not even need to. There are probably some players who will do this anyway, because how many players actually read 8 pages of people complaining about the exact same thing, ultimately noticing that one person that referenced twitter.

Just please make a news post on mwomercs informing players of changes. You can still do that. You have time before the patch drops. I don't want to see anyone spending the time to change their mechs unnecessarily.

Edited by -Spectre, 14 May 2018 - 03:21 PM.