572 replies to this topic

[shopsmart]

I took a small break from MWO, come back to look at patch notes. Nod in slight disdain of clan nerfs. I prefer IS, but clan has its different play style. Didn't like seeing clan going to a IS style. Good on Russ to prevent more cratering in sales. But not happy to hear this will be approached again.

[Marius Evander]

I reckon the whole laer nerf was a coverup to hide the 5 solaris divisions i and many others will need to buy and level up new mechs for with 4 days notice.

[MechaBattler]

shopsmart, on 12 May 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

I took a small break from MWO, come back to look at patch notes. Nod in slight disdain of clan nerfs. I prefer IS, but clan has its different play style. Didn't like seeing clan going to a IS style. Good on Russ to prevent more cratering in sales. But not happy to hear this will be approached again.

Koniving, on 12 May 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

Yep. Clans can't operate without their chicken hats.

Currently Clans can do 78 damage with 6 ER ML and 2 Heavy LL without ghost heat or shutting down. All this at only 14 tons.
Closest thing IS has without triggering ghost heat is 60 with 6 ER ML and 3 LPL all at 27 tons. Not to mention nearly twice the range for the Clans.

Post nerf it'd be 59 damage Clan to 60 damage IS without hitting ghost heat at 16 tons to 27 tons and even better range.
Or risking a measily 3.7 extra ghost heat on top of a minor bit for an extra ER ML the Clans could net 66 damage for what would effectively be 60% heat on a 15 DHS build with no skill tree. Meanwhile the IS would get hit with (and currently do) 7.06 extra heat just to bring that IS 60 damage to 65, post patch... so the Clans STILL win the laser vomit war post nerf. But it would've been a lot more fair.

How about now? Do the nerfs make sense now? Puts things in perspective from a balance stand point.

[McHoshi]

MechaBattler, on 12 May 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

How about now? Do the nerfs make sense now? Puts things in perspective from a balance stand point.

You got the wrong persective - tell me in which other way clans got any advantages?

[LordLosh]

Jep Jorgensson, on 12 May 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

More and more, I am thinking that this video might be actually real.

Thank you, sir. That made my day and made me laugh quite a bit.

[Jay Leon Hart]

McHoshi, on 12 May 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

You got the wrong persective - tell me in which other way clans got any advantages?

- Almost all equipment/upgrades (XLs, Endo, Ferro, DHS, ECM, AP, TCs, NARC)
- Gauss
- LBX ACs
- UAC2s

However;
- Missiles are decently balanced
- MGs, UAC5s & UAC10s are decently balanced
- Lasers are *maybe* decently balanced?

On the other hand;
- IS has better ACs
- IS has better UAC20s

[MechaBattler]

McHoshi, on 12 May 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

You got the wrong persective - tell me in which other way clans got any advantages?

The most obvious and potent being the Clan XL and 2 slot dubs. That's not counting all the other things.

Those numbers don't lie. From a subjective point of view. It brings both laser vomits into balance. As explained you can fire a single med laser over the cap and not be too harshly punished, thereby still edging out the IS vomit.

[LordLosh]

Okay I lied as I have an update. I have asked Paul to pull the nerds from the patch. Whether that goes beyond laser changes and MKII adjustments I’m not sure but at least two things.
Russ Bullock‏



In the end this is not a sign that I think the nerfs were a bad idea and we shouldn’t have them
Russ Bullock‏



At the least I feel these level of changes usually come with more fore warning, perhaps a PTS and a feedback loop.
Russ Bullock‏



So let’s call them tabled for now but we may open that process again so on some or all of these adjustments
Russ Bullock‏

Thank you to everyone who plays the game and posted. To the five or 6 of you that thought it was ok and fair you have Zero concepts of how the game works or is played.
GHOST HEAT NEVER HAS BEEN THE ANSWER AND NEVER WILL BE

Edited by LordLosh, 12 May 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[Bonfor]

Ghost heat and all of these boating issues could have been prevented if PGI had gone with the same hardpoint size limitations that MW2 or MW4 had (forget which)...that could have allowed light & medium mechs to boat more smaller lasers, and yet allowed the heavy & assault mechs to boat fewer but larger ones.

Edited by Bonfor, 12 May 2018 - 05:10 PM.

[Chaka Khan]

Bonfor, on 12 May 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

Ghost heat and all of these boating issues could have been prevented if PGI had gone with the same hardpoint size limitations that MW2 or MW4 had (forget which)...that could have allowed light & medium mechs to boat more smaller lasers, and yet allowed the heavy & assault mechs to boat fewer but larger ones.

that sounds like a fascinating idea. so big mechs get big tasks and lil mechs get lil tasks.... thats so revolutionary it bursts my brain.... xD

how nobody else ever came up with this...

seriously, i like this!

[Bolter01]

Im an IS Fanboi because I like the under dog, - yet now IS has become the OVER dog.
Give Clan their tech advantage FFS, this is a real joke.
reducing ANH and Fafnir armour?!!
the game dosnt need to be weapon balanced FFS!
I really dont need IS weapons to be eqivalent to Clan weapons or dmg.
Cant you balance the game with numbers? 10 Clan (superior tech) vs 12 IS (vintage)
All of this makes Baby Jesus very sad

[Laser Kiwi]

LordLosh, on 12 May 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

Okay I lied as I have an update. I have asked Paul to pull the nerds from the patch. Whether that goes beyond laser changes and MKII adjustments I’m not sure but at least two things.
Russ Bullock‏



In the end this is not a sign that I think the nerfs were a bad idea and we shouldn’t have them
Russ Bullock‏



At the least I feel these level of changes usually come with more fore warning, perhaps a PTS and a feedback loop.
Russ Bullock‏



So let’s call them tabled for now but we may open that process again so on some or all of these adjustments
Russ Bullock‏

Thank you to everyone who plays the game and posted. To the five or 6 of you that thought it was ok and fair you have Zero concepts of how the game works or is played.
GHOST HEAT NEVER HAS BEEN THE ANSWER AND NEVER WILL BE

Ghost heat is a pretty good concept for controlling laser vomit, it puts a consequence in for laser boating and forces players to play a hit and fade style or a coordinated target style if they want to vomit lasers effectively. Without it clan mechs would simply put energy pods on and vomit every large laser they could across any open map. So it has assisted in controlling a certain play style. I don't think they should increase the ghost heat penalties either but to say it hasn't been "the answer" isn't 100% accurate.

[LordLosh]

its give and take. lots of better examples of balancing that makes a lot more sense than random heat spikes I'm not going to name them all because they all don't matter as its never going to change, but a lot of players have come up and suggested very well organized and presented ways to do the same thing without ghost heat.

[process]

Heat has always been the trade-off for lasers. A high heat cap is directly responsible for enormous laser alphas we can afford, and ghost heat is the bandaid.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Dee Eight, on 11 May 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

#2 Why are you penalizing ALL Annihilator 1X and 2A variant owners for the players who are using them to build twin heavy gauss mechs ? All this change is going to do is switch them to using the 1A variant instead. What happens then ? You penalize the 1A variant players next ? Why not instead put a negative heavy gauss quirk on the 1X and 2A variants and see if the #s change for their performances... because its certainly not multi AC/2, AC/5, and LB users skewing the performance data for those two variants.

Just a correction: 1X is the HGR variant, but no one runs dual HGR on the 2A. It's all Dakka there. 5UAC5 or 2UAC5 2UAC10 or 6UAC2 etc. (and 5LBX10 for solaris)

2A was easily the best variant. These nerfs won't affect it too much.

[Lionheart2012]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 12 May 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

How much comp or faction play do you do again?

Since we are in irrelevant question time, how tall are you?

[Ruediger Steiner]

Mechwarriors please! This discussion is leading nowhere, cause we are all too good at this game. Good Mechwarriors know **** bout balance.
And again i laughed so hard I pooped my pants.
No idea what Russ is taking, but it´s not the right dosis.

[Antares102]

Wishmast3r, on 12 May 2018 - 11:58 PM, said:

Mechwarriors please! This discussion is leading nowhere, cause we are all too good at this game. Good Mechwarriors know **** bout balance.
And again i laughed so hard I pooped my pants.
No idea what Russ is taking, but it´s not the right dosis.

Wow this is truely hilarious. The gravity of that statement is on Trump tweet levels.
Being good does not mean one knows balance...
No, quite the opposite Mr. Bullock. Being good means you have to sit down, analyse sh|t and self-reflect.
Without analysis and self-reflection you would have never become good in the focking first place.
And both actions are the basis to learn the imbalances and thus also knoow how to balance it.

The best proof is the following thread:
https://mwomercs.com...balance-update/
Tarogato and many others proposed many good changes to significantly improve balance.
But I bet Mr. Bullock you dont even know that this thread exists.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Antares102, on 13 May 2018 - 12:25 AM, said:

The best proof is the following thread:
https://mwomercs.com...balance-update/
Tarogato and many others proposed many good changes to significantly improve balance.
But I bet Mr. Bullock you dont even know that this thread exists.

Meanwhile on Twitter ...

[Smargl]

Oh come on, delete clans from the game already!