291 replies to this topic

[Mortalcoil]

vibrant, on 12 May 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

Clan laser vomit is an issue, few people here would say otherwise. As has been stated numerous times, heavy-handed blanket nerfs reducing factors by 33%-50%, that affect non-problematic mechs more than problematic ones, without testing, without any iterative change, is clearly not the way to go. PGI have said before that they won't do it, yet they keep on doing it.

I'm not sure what's going on in your life, but calling people crybabies is an insult. Especially when you do it repeatedly, time after time, thread after thread. It's surely something I'd never call my boss, my parents, my partner, or anyone I hold respect for. You've stated in another thread you're not being sarcastic, congratulating people while simultaneously calling them crybabies - do you expect anyone to take this seriously?

Show me where I used the words crybabies please.

I stated that clan cried until the nerfs were removed. Which is what happened. You can say it didn't happen, but that doesn't mean it didn't actually happen.

and i'm not angry about it. I just find it very very funny. I will continue to lol my way through MWO with clan laser vomit because it is so easy and overpowered. So I say thank you to everyone who complained, and a lot of people complained, a lot.

and do not put words in my mouth. You are calling me rude. That is very very rude. You sir, are the rude person.

You talk up about having respect for people, then you lie about what they are saying, that to me is worse than any insult. So I have to ask you. Are you ok? What is going on in your life that would make you lie about what other people are saying?

Edited by Mortalcoil, 12 May 2018 - 03:59 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

SFC174, on 12 May 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

Clan ballistics are largely inferior to IS ballistics.

Eh, I'd say they're at least as balanced at lasers, but not as balanced as missiles.

Clan have better Gauss, LBX & UAC2s

IS have better ACs & UAC20s

MGs, UAC5s & UAC10s I'd put in the middle.

LGauss is still pretty meh, HGauss is strong but has enough drawbacks.

[SFC174]

Mortalcoil, on 12 May 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

You can find it suspect all you want, but the designers have literally said that clan AC's were put in the game because of ammo coding issues, and clan UAC's are just fine. The reason why clans use laser vomit is because it is by far the best thing in the game, something the nerfs were trying to address. There is no reason to go clan ballistic because clan laser vomit is just better. I'm sorry you don't like nerfs, but clan laser vomit is the most powerful thing in the game. That's why clan doesn't use ballistics. I mean, don't you see the ridiculousness here?

By far? I actually find Clan Gauss/Vomit to be pretty damn potent. And IS ballistic boats are pretty damn devastating when you start getting into the assaults. I happen to enjoy laser vomit as well in both IS and Clan variants. In fact, my HBK-4P averages about 50 dmg more per match than my HBK-IIC-A despite only having a 48 pt alpha vs. a 64 pt alpha. Given that those two mechs are identical in tonnage, similar in hardpoint count/layout and both focus on laser vomit builds, they are a great comparison.

The IIC-A is a little faster 90 kph vs. 80 kph. It also gets jump jets. One of the best ridge peekers in the game.

The 4P OTOH is tankier. It can ridge peek or corner peek equally well. Lower alpha is offset by much faster firing rate and it is a bit more heat efficient.

Both are amazingly fun to play and fill their niche's well. I suspect that in a 1v1 battle with current weapon stats the 4P would come out on top with the only caveat being its vulnerability to losing almost all its weapons to a single ST crit. Horses for courses. But if you're looking at laser balance, the yin and yang of those two mechs says its pretty good right now.

[Andi Nagasia]

first off i wasnt changing any of the discussions, just commenting on your post,

ya got the tonnage wrong on the WHM but still thats not an issue,
as a 81Kph, 70Ton Mech would have the same Tonnage as a 81Kph 75Ton mech,
the only difference being the armor, which the WHM would come out close to,
so the WHM is more or less a 75Ton mech in a 70Ton Mechs body,

Sixpack, on 12 May 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Wrong. 10% range increase puts IS ER meds at 396. So the advantage of clan range only comes in to play with the large pulse lasers, wich gets beaten by the standard large laser with a 10% range quirk after somewhere between 800 and 900 meters. 5-10% is pretty common for IS laservomit meta mechs, negating quite a bit to (nearly) all of the range advantage of CERM.

um what??? you asked,

Sixpack, on 11 May 2018 - 06:59 PM, said:

Incidentally andi, could you tell me the average engagement range in mwo?

to which im responded 300-500m, i didnt comment on Clan Laser Range Advantage,
just what the average engagement range in mwo is, based on my experience,
so i dont see how my answer to your question was wrong,

Sixpack, on 12 May 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

And you have been shown to be wrong, the clans will have a clearly inferior build being unable to contest an similar IS laservomit when going laservomit meta mech vs laservomit meta mech in the heavy class.

again what? i said,

Quote

im not saying that this will fully balance the game,
just that if it leads to Clan getting some more quirk love to chassis that need it, why not atleast try it out?

this is my opinion on how i feel when it comes to these changes, so how can i be wrong?
also if these changes make IS stronger than Clan then wouldnt Clan be in a place to get Buffed?
wouldnt that make me right?

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 May 2018 - 04:19 PM.

[Sixpack]

Quote

ya got the tonnage wrong on the WHM but still thats not an issue,


as a 81Kph, 70Ton Mech would have the same Tonnage as a 81Kph 75Ton mech,
the only difference being the armor, which the WHM would come out close to,
so the WHM is more or less a 75Ton mech in a 70Ton Mechs body,

Considering that I play faction warfare I disagree. It is a 70 ton mech with additional defensive and offensive boni. And clanners would have only inferior builds available while having to run with less tonnage.

Quote

um what??? you asked,




to which im responded 300-500m, i didnt comment on Clan Laser Range Advantage,
just what the average engagement range in mwo is, based on my experience,
so i dont see how my answer to your question was wrong,

I see, I must have missed that and do aplogise, it all got rather cluncky with the spaghetti posting.

Quote

again what? i said,


this is my opinion on how i feel when it comes to these changes, so how can i be wrong?
also if these changes make IS stronger than Clan then wouldnt Clan be in a place to get Buffed?
wouldnt that make me right?

Which is wrong, clans are going to be clearly inferior with that and expecting buffs is a no go. If they would have wanted to go with that there would have been changes to clan laser damage/heat/cooldown/beam duration etc. with the ghost heat cap reduction. Nothing of that was done.

And well, numbers trump feelings, so your feeling is wrong.

Not to mention that the sheer ammount of quirks required to counter this sillyness would require more work to bring the game back to the current state of balance. It's like tripping over yourself.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Dogstar, on 12 May 2018 - 04:43 AM, said:

Frankly, I'll be glad to get rid of all the clan crybabies who 'can't play' now that their favourite OP mechs are 'destroyed'.

Seriously who needs those salty sad sacks

Good riddance.

People who want to get matches against other people? Or do you like playing spinning circle online?

[Snowbluff]

Well, as long as I have a warhammer, might as well try it. How do I build one for IS Laser Vom? or is my BHII a better chassis?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Johnathan Tanner, on 12 May 2018 - 06:32 PM, said:

People who want to get matches against other people? Or do you like playing spinning circle online?

From all the posts that Dogstar has made, I can't put any weight on his thoughts on balance. He's totally ok with IS holding all advantages in a fight and just calls Clans crybabies for calling out a totally unfair system.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Snowbluff, on 12 May 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

Well, as long as I have a warhammer, might as well try it. How do I build one for IS Laser Vom? or is my BHII a better chassis?

3 LL and a bunch of ERMLs. On Assaults (or if you happen to have a lot of extra tonnage) 3LPL and a bunch of ERML as to cut down on the maximum duration of your alpha.

Warhammer 6D works, though I recommend a grasshopper with heat gen quirks or a black knight with heat gen quirks.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...97ff0a8eeae7331

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 12 May 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

Well, as long as I have a warhammer, might as well try it. How do I build one for IS Laser Vom? or is my BHII a better chassis?

Do Gauss-Vom on the BHII. 58 alpha is gucci.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 May 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

Do Gauss-Vom on the BHII. 58 alpha is gucci.

*counts on fingers*
So I have a 6 ERML 1 Gauss as my go-to on my BHII, which does 45 damage...
58-15 is 43, so do you mean 3 LPL and 2 ML?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Snowbluff, on 12 May 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

*counts on fingers*
So I have a 6 ERML 1 Gauss as my go-to on my BHII, which does 45 damage...
58-15 is 43, so do you mean 3 LPL and 2 ML?

5ERML 2LL and a gauss works out to 58.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...5bd8e17160bb656

Can drop to 6ERML, 1LL, and a gauss for 54 damage but gain more heatsinks.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...86f17341f506123

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 12 May 2018 - 07:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 12 May 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

5ERML 2LL and a gauss works out to 58.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...5bd8e17160bb656

Can drop to 6ERML, 1LL, and a gauss for 54 damage but gain 4 more heatsinks.

This.

Run a 295 engine and you'll get 16 DHS.

EZ 1k damage.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 12 May 2018 - 07:26 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 May 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

This.

Run a 295 engine and you'll get 16 DHS.

EZ 1k damage.

Hmmm yes quite. I like this for my BHII. :3

Warhammer 5D is the crummy one, right? I've been wanting a build for it, as I mastered that chassis back when the 3 rule was in place. I'll try that vom too.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 12 May 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Hmmm yes quite. I like this for my BHII. :3

Warhammer 5D is the crummy one, right? I've been wanting a build for it, as I mastered that chassis back when the 3 rule was in place. I'll try that vom too.

WHM-7S is the crummy one, though TBQH it's still a more competent heavy than most. Can't really go wrong when you have at least six energy hardpoints on the IS side, so this one can do MRM+Lasers pretty well.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 May 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

WHM-7S is the crummy one, though TBQH it's still a more competent heavy than most. Can't really go wrong when you have at least six energy hardpoints on the IS side, so this one can do MRM+Lasers pretty well.

Ah yes, the 3x M hardpoint. Man do I hate it. Tis true that the WHM are generally pretty good, and I haven't pulled that one out since MRMs and LFE came out. I should try and take all of the cbills I earned from these past evens and engine and arm all of my mechs.

[Wing Gundam Zero Custom]

Exilyth, on 12 May 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

TBH, this nerf wouldn't have gotten as much backlash if PGI had introduced it in small bite sized incements over multiple patches.

don't encourage bad ideas

[Deathlike]

Wing Gundam Zero Custom, on 12 May 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

don't encourage bad ideas

Someone in Vancouver thought and said:

You mean, increase heat to all clan lasers by .1 every month.
Balance achieved!

[Variant1]

Bout time clanners got some nerfin! But imo i wa hopin they would rework clan lasers or at least give them extra heat. Would have been better if clans had 100-200m advantage instead of meds having same range as an IS large laser and er pokin as far as an is gauss (propably further). Mw4 had the right idea about lasers(except small ones)

PJohann, on 11 May 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

Thats just ********. They want to nerf clan higher alpha potential but they intentionally forgot about much longer recycle time, burn duration, worse heat efficiency and range argument comes from damn 2014 or something. Quirked IS vomit is clearly on par with clan range.

Clan have the best heat dissipation, have insane range and damage to boot. its time that laser vomit got rained in. But i was hopin for a total rework of clan lasers to be honest. mw4 had the right idea(except small lasers those were trash)

Bombast, on 11 May 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

25-50% reduction in boatability of Clan lasers. That's a pretty big hammer.

isint stopping boating a good thing?

Yeonne Greene, on 11 May 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

Inner Sphere and Clan LRMs

• Velocity increased to 660 m/s (from 220 m/s)

[Jay Leon Hart]

Variant1, on 13 May 2018 - 06:00 AM, said:

Would have been better if clans had 100-200m advantage instead of meds having same range as an IS large laser

At the risk of repeating myself...

IS ML = 270m
IS ERML = 360m
Clan ERML = 400m
IS LL = 450m
IS ERLL = 675m
Clan ERLL = 740m

That's less than your proposed 100-200m range advantage already, with already less range on a Clan ERML than an IS LL, so what's your problem again?