51 replies to this topic

[EDMW CSN]

ManDaisy, on 23 December 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:

Tbolt--Argh... the most mis translated table top weapon in all of mechwarrior. Thunderbolts are suppost to be used to deliver land mines across map tiles where they detonate and not as a cheap arrow IV missle. Also hated they fact that those flying turds were practically invincible. Laser, machine guns, AMS, ppc, once it was in air anything you could shoot at it, passed thru like nothing. SHOOT DOWN ALL THE MISSILES!!!

Big mistake there dude.

Thunder munitions deliver landmines, not Tbolts.
Tbolts are basically extended range ACs with a minimum range of 5 and a max range of 18.
And they can be shot down by AMS.

That is the most important portion. MW3 : PM and MW4 never got it right. Only Arrow IVs were supposed to be immune to AMS but they do splash damage in a grid not onto the target mech

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 23 December 2011 - 09:32 PM.

[ManDaisy]

Thank you for your correction.

[Xhaleon]

Laser boating could have been dealt with using a cone of fire system, but noooo, everyone wants them to be pinpoint lasers, then try adding all sorts of other mechanisms to make them not pinpoint damage. So roundabout...

[ManDaisy]

actually I don't want pinpoint damage or pinpoint accuracy, cone fire or not. Lasers have been OP ever since mw1 group fire mode.

Edited by ManDaisy, 23 December 2011 - 11:36 PM.

[VYCanis]

if your lasers deal damage over duration ala MWLL style, you don't need cone of fire.
because unless you and your target are standing perfectly still and/or you have nerves of steel/perfect reflexes, chances are that you will sweep your lasers over and probably past your target. Effecting a similar overall spread of damage/missed damage as if you had cone of fire lasers that dealt their damage instantly, but doing it more believably

[Xhaleon]

VYCanis, on 24 December 2011 - 12:03 AM, said:

if your lasers deal damage over duration ala MWLL style, you don't need cone of fire.
because unless you and your target are standing perfectly still and/or you have nerves of steel/perfect reflexes, chances are that you will sweep your lasers over and probably past your target. Effecting a similar overall spread of damage/missed damage as if you had cone of fire lasers that dealt their damage instantly, but doing it more believably

Really, its too easy to do that. Unless the laser lasts for an excessively long period of time, most people can keep it painted on a single part for the duration. Too bad for joystick people though.

[VYCanis]

maybe at point blank range if your target hasn't budged or your opponent is running literally straight at you as you stand in place.

but a few hundred meters out, the tiniest twitch and you are off your target all together

at close range, slow players spin and twist to spread damage if they know whats good for them.

In practice lasers in MWLL simply don't have the raw knock out power that previous MW games had, even when boated because of this. They can be effective, they >can< lump damage. But its not happening often enough where its a serious problem and its difficult enough to do on the move enough where dealing with lasers is a skill in and of itself.

joysticks users aren't bad off, if anything their aim is nice and stable. they only suffer against aircraft and BA.

[Quarth]

so we just need to start designing OMNI style configurations, if the game allows i hope.

bye bye ERMedium

[John Clavell]

There is no information to suggest anyone weapon or weapons class wont be more powerful. I would surmise, considering the history of gaming, that such imbalance is inevitable. There will be weapons and equipment which may well come over as being more 'powerful' than others. And I can assure you it won't take pilots long to figure it out. However, this does have a happy ending. Unlike previous MechWarrior titles, and due to the nature of PGI's desired model for the game, we will have the luxury of continued balancing. Once unbalance is discovered, which goes overlooked in the design and testing phase the devs can see the community use (which is always the best testing) and patch it. Which is, for a multiplayer game, very important. And I for one have no desire to wait for months or years to get a patch to fix balance issues as was the case with MechWarrior 4.

Edited by John Clavell, 24 December 2011 - 04:09 AM.

[ffhounddog]

I always liked the phoenix hawk as a good all purpose mech. I was always found of the mechs I like playing battletech and with a few penetrators, phoenixhawks, lynx, grasshoppers, panthers, jenners, and valkeriyes.

[Volume]

My main point here is that the developers might not even need to tweak numbers - the tabletop ones worked there, and they might be able to get them to work here! I think you can buff or nerf indirectly without removing customization and without making the weapon useless. Make everything situational - no best weapon. Certain weaponry can be powerful at different ranges, in different environments, with different heat effects, visibility effects, sensor effects, etc. What good is it to boat 5 LRM-20s if you can't see your enemy and can't detect them with your sensors? What good is it to boat 14 ER Small lasers if you can't get in range to use them, or the heat buildup is too significant? What good is it to mount cERPPC and cGauss on your Shadowcat if it's very, very, tough to jumpsnipe (airborne attacks on the TT gave you roughly -50% chance to hit)? This doesn't need to be randomized or weapons don't need their damage toned down - it can be affected by thrust, by controls, by raising the skill ceiling. Weapons can be pinpoint, but if you need to lead your target, or need to hold a laser on a target for 3 second straight or something, pinpoint won't mean instagib.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

@Volume - good post, but remember that the Clans (and their Tech) won't be available for nearly a year after launch. This gives the devs plenty of time to "balance" combat out in the ways you have suggested before we have the Clan problem. For them most people have suggested that we balance by numbers ie Star v company.How they deal with the numbers wanting to play Clans ie a high percentage, is another matter. It may be that anyone wanting to play Clan will have to go through a Trial If you fail then you have to play IS for a month or whatever until you can try again. This means that the Clans will be limited to a small number of "elite" pilots,which is canon. Also their supplies will be somewhat limited.