15 replies to this topic

[Exilyth]

Solaris7 has brought a new influx of players.
So, when will we finally get some tutorials explaining the basic knowledge needed to play MW:O?

Academy is ok for the most basic movement and shooting stuff as required by solaris, but to prepare players for quickplay and faction we REALLY need tutorials explaining

• the different phases of a match (moving out, scouting, poke, brawl, mop up)
  
• sensor systems (target locks, target information, bap/tag/narc vs ecm)
  
• game mode objectives (e.g. bringing batteries to the towers in incursion, capping points in conquest, ...)
  
• tactics 101 - just like the comic of the same name (e.g. sticking together, numerical superiority, focussing fire, how and when to push, stuff like that - even on a shallow level would be fine)

The game mode part could be a simple as letting players choose game modes in training grounds.

Edited by Exilyth, 12 May 2018 - 05:54 PM.

[Koniving]

You'll see it on: Whatever Mechwarrior 5's release date is.

[Dave Forsey]

Exilyth, on 12 May 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Solaris7 has brought a new influx of players.
So, when will we finally get some tutorials explaining the basic knowledge needed to play MW:O?

Academy is ok for the most basic movement and shooting stuff as required by solaris, but to prepare players for quickplay and faction we REALLY need tutorials explaining

• the different phases of a match (moving out, scouting, poke, brawl, mop up)
  
• sensor systems (target locks, target information, bap/tag/narc vs ecm)
  
• game mode objectives (e.g. bringing batteries to the towers in incursion, capping points in conquest, ...)
  
• tactics 101 - just like the comic of the same name (e.g. sticking together, numerical superiority, focussing fire, how and when to push, stuff like that - even on a shallow level would be fine)

The game mode part could be a simple as letting players choose game modes in training grounds.

The cost and time of designing, creating, playtesting and then repeating all those stages every time the slightest element changes in any connected part of the game, precludes these from finding their way into the Academy.

Video tutorials are far better for teaching game modes and most of those other elements.

Yes, we should have better links to external teaching aids in the Academy. There was a technical reason contributing to this - but I no longer recall the details.

[Scout Derek]

Dave Forsey, on 14 May 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

The cost and time of designing, creating, playtesting and then repeating all those stages every time the slightest element changes in any connected part of the game, precludes these from finding their way into the Academy.

Video tutorials are far better for teaching game modes and most of those other elements.

Yes, we should have better links to external teaching aids in the Academy. There was a technical reason contributing to this - but I no longer recall the details.

Here's a thought to consider - what if you guys made a hyperlink extension via a hyperlink within the game, kind of like when you hit ESC while in a match/in-game, that you can put into the MechWarrior Academy? Like, put it over signs or whatever that light up and prompt a "Press ESC to access advanced tutorial panel", etc.?

[Dave Forsey]

Scout Derek, on 14 May 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

Here's a thought to consider - what if you guys made a hyperlink extension via a hyperlink within the game, kind of like when you hit ESC while in a match/in-game, that you can put into the MechWarrior Academy? Like, put it over signs or whatever that light up and prompt a "Press ESC to access advanced tutorial panel", etc.?

The issue I mentioned (the one I can't remember the details about), precluded those sorts of links.
It's really the first thought I had facing the limitations of a live tutorial: a little "Memory Core" icon with a tabbed page indexing various intro videos, tutorials, lore, background...

[MechaBattler]

Would it be possible to script the models to act out tutorials then? Non-interactive just purely watchable. Of course that would still mean PGI would be stuck doing the work.

[Elizander]

There are pop-up images in the tutorial. Perhaps this can be used in other parts of the game (Mechlab, Solaris, Store) when being accessed for the first time by new players and an option in settings to turn off all pop-up tutorial notifications.

[Tesunie]

Dave Forsey, on 15 May 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

The issue I mentioned (the one I can't remember the details about), precluded those sorts of links.
It's really the first thought I had facing the limitations of a live tutorial: a little "Memory Core" icon with a tabbed page indexing various intro videos, tutorials, lore, background...

Wouldn't it be possible to make tutorials in Academy for at least basic game functions in each game mode? I mean, capturing a base is always "stand inside the lighted bars of the base to capture it", which then applies to Conquest and Assault as base capturing is always the same. Basically, show and describe the basic, virtually unchanging elements of game play. I mean, capturing a base hasn't changed since Assault game mode came in, which was all the way back to the very beginnings of this game... (Just as an example.)

You don't have to cover new things that are "subject to change". Just those elements that are solid and highly unlikely to change.

[Koniving]

To be honest, just put a few links to such tutorials in the new player thread and a mention of it in the academy. Simple line of text, can use your own or link to good youtube tutorials made by other players.

Need to pull more players into the new player thread for the help it provides, there's often the case of new players getting something, not understanding certain aspects of the game and either tossing it (sometimes returning weeks or months later to get help if ever) or coming in soon after with a tale of woe for buying something without knowing some basic things like raising armor.

[Dave Forsey]

Tesunie, on 15 May 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

Wouldn't it be possible to make tutorials in Academy for at least basic game functions in each game mode? I mean, capturing a base is always "stand inside the lighted bars of the base to capture it", which then applies to Conquest and Assault as base capturing is always the same. Basically, show and describe the basic, virtually unchanging elements of game play. I mean, capturing a base hasn't changed since Assault game mode came in, which was all the way back to the very beginnings of this game... (Just as an example.) You don't have to cover new things that are "subject to change". Just those elements that are solid and highly unlikely to change.

I'm not arguing against this, just providing some insight into the process.

To make a video about the capture mechanic and put in a link (given that we have a good place to put it) would be, at most a day or so of work.

To add just putting an active capture point into the academy would involve (just off the top of my head):

• Determining a good spot that doesn't interfere with other activities or
  
  • working out how to spawn and de-spawn the prefab, which involves
    
    • adding checks to make sure the spawn doesn't interfere with the player
      
    • adding a testing regimen to ensure spawn/respawn doesn't lead to memory leaks
• Adding the activity to the menu system, and making any adjustments to layout and presentation
  
• Create the instructional flow that prompts the player and figuring out all the ways a player could exploit, fail to perform appropriately, decide to quit early... etc.
  
• Creating all the text and perhaps audio prompts and adding the assets
  
• Testing all of this from my end
  
• Putting it in front of a naive player (hard to find!) to see what they do
  
• Regression testing this and all the other activities to make sure nothing else in the academy has been affected.

Not a day's work - and there's more than listed above if I thought about it for longer. This list also doesn't capture the complications involved using cryengine's dataflow scripting system - which sometime involved putting no-op nodes into the graph to ensure all the values arrive at a crucial node at the right time. My heart rate has just jumped thinking about it.

So an awful lot goes into the decision about what feature should be added. We/I have already thought and considered many, if not most, of the ideas presenting in these forums and would love to have the bandwidth to add them all.

To repeat myself, I'm not arguing against the utility/importance of any feature, just providing a little glimpse into the process.

Back to MW5, where blueprints behave like a procedural programming language not an asynchronous dataflow graph!

[Tarogato]

Koniving, on 16 May 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

To be honest, just put a few links to such tutorials in the new player thread and a mention of it in the academy. Simple line of text, can use your own or link to good youtube tutorials made by other players.

Maybe not a forum thread, as those are necessarily owned and curated by one single individual - pain in the **** if they go AFK for weeks and something needs updated. Also, it's a mess for organisation. I even copped a forum ban for trying to use multiple accounts to streamline the organisation of large complex posts.

But the new wiki? Much better. Seems like a no-brainer to me. The Academy Tutorial should provide a hyperlink directly to an index of tutorials on the wiki. Furthermore, once enough tutorial articles are populated, it should be given a shoutout on the homepage / in-game news carousel. Because lord knows, most people who have already completed the Academy most definitely do need the help.

[Exilyth]

It doesn't have to be a fully interactive mission (which sounds like more work than it's worth with the current engine) - there have been requests for an ecyclopedia-like section where players can read up on the basics in text form.

Dave Forsey, on 17 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

This list also doesn't capture the complications involved using cryengine's dataflow scripting system - which sometime involved putting no-op nodes into the graph to ensure all the values arrive at a crucial node at the right time.

Dave Forsey, on 17 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Back to MW5, where blueprints behave like a procedural programming language not an asynchronous dataflow graph!

Ewww, that sounds really evil.

// this function never looks back
goto better_engine;

Edited by Exilyth, 17 May 2018 - 02:58 PM.

[Tesunie]

Dave Forsey, on 17 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'm not arguing against this, just providing some insight into the process.

To make a video about the capture mechanic and put in a link (given that we have a good place to put it) would be, at most a day or so of work.

Yeash! I knew it was a lot of work... which is why I've always told people it's a lot of work when they complain about "a simple fix"...

A video archive would be great too. Not as good as an interactive tutorial, but certainly more than enough. It would be great if we had some very ambitious players with video recording abilities to maybe... submit materials for official posting?
(Sadly, I do not have such capabilities.)

[TooDumbToQuit]

Things have changed. Onslaught for instance now has a lot of choices including "IMPOSSIBLE LEVEL" which I think every game should have.

So IMO, the Academy has upgraded using what it has and what it can do.

I really think players videos are what is needed. Not the ones where you watch them do 1200 damage, but where you show them working as a team. I accidentally deleted them but I had a series of video clips in Sieges in Faction Warfare of teams doing it right and teams doing it wrong as far as coming in together etc. Just the entrance part. Taking down the gate and getting in.

If I had a much better PC and 24 really really good friends I could do some of what is wanted. Make a lobby, be the spectator and video the right way and the wrong way to do things. But most players in this game have better PCs, are better at the game and have more friends than I do so...someone needs to step up.

[Tier5ForLife]

One thing I'd like to see in Onslaught is the targets zig-zagging. The jumping up and down might people think LRMs, ATMs etc work well.

The only way you can hit or kill a fast light with LRMs etc is if he jumps straight up. And that is just what they do......

[Purple Invention]

Dear PGI,

I understand that it is time consuming and expensive to reconfigure the Academy. If there was one single thing that you could add, it would make a world of difference: the ability to shoot at a Mech in motion while I am in motion. Thats how we all fight right?
We dont just stand there and shoot, we shoot while moving. How about if you simply make those stationary mechs in River City
(the ones that currently attack you once you get into range) move towards you while attacking?
This would at lesst give us a dynamic where both the player and the NPC mech are in motion, thus replicating the experience in solo Q, to some extent.

Ty