24 replies to this topic

[CK16]

OK so Russ has said they intend to try some balancing out in a PTS...This got me thinking..Obviously there was much back lash at setting a limit of 4 Clan Meds and really this change would have wrecked alot more medicore builds then meta, this never addresses the combo of 4 Meds with 2 Larges ect or that combo in Gauss vomit (Death Strike meta?)

So here is my simple idea...

I say limit it to 6 total lasers total between Med's & Larges for both sides (maybe IS can get 7). With this make it so you cannot also add any Gauss Rifles, AC5/10/20's, LBX5/10/20's, UAC 5/10/20's, SRM 4/6's, LRM10/15/20's , MRM's, ATM's, & PPC's to the laser alpha (really most players do not anyway case is tracking with lasers and leading target). The current rules still apply though of Ghost Heat to the large and med class by themselves for each side.

Just a thought?

[LordBraxton]

Remove all ghost heat from inner sphere, they have **** heatsinks anyway.

PS: I only play clan mechs now

[CK16]

Eh no, IS needs Ghost Heat as well...

[N0ni]

Could just keep everything where it's at and just buff IS weapons.

• IS ML/MPL up to 7 without GH.
  
• Light PPCs up to 4 without GH (20 damage, on par with 2 regular PPCs while being 2 total tons less with slightly more heat).
  
• Lower GH buildup when using a combination of RACs that breaks current GH ruleset (Example: Two RAC2s and one RAC5).
  
• Allow up to 3 Light Gauss rifles to be charged at a time instead of just 2. (24 damage in comparison to two regular gauss rifles at 30 damage, maybe nerf cooldown to 3.10s to balance out the charge limit)
  
• Missiles are in an okay place (Note to Forum LRMers: in an OKAY place, not saying it's perfect and doesn't need minor tweaks, just not a priority in terms of overall balance). As much as i would like MRM70 without GH, i feel like that might be a little too much. Although, GH can go when you try to stick a 40 with a 10 or 20.

[Scratx]

LordBraxton, on 13 May 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

Remove all ghost heat from inner sphere, they have **** heatsinks anyway.

PS: I only play clan mechs now

... That breaks far more than it helps. You do realise that IS can boat heatsinks and lasers just fine, too? Return of the Swayback, anyone?

[Y E O N N E]

N0ni, on 13 May 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

Could just keep everything where it's at and just buff IS weapons.

• IS ML/MPL up to 7 without GH.
  
• Light PPCs up to 4 without GH (20 damage, on par with 2 regular PPCs while being 2 total tons less with slightly more heat).
  
• Lower GH buildup when using a combination of RACs that breaks current GH ruleset (Example: Two RAC2s and one RAC5).
  
• Allow up to 3 Light Gauss rifles to be charged at a time instead of just 2. (24 damage in comparison to two regular gauss rifles at 30 damage, maybe nerf cooldown to 3.10s to balance out the charge limit)
  
• Missiles are in an okay place (Note to Forum LRMers: in an OKAY place, not saying it's perfect and doesn't need minor tweaks, just not a priority in terms of overall balance). As much as i would like MRM70 without GH, i feel like that might be a little too much. Although, GH can go when you try to stick a 40 with a 10 or 20.

I feel like trying to balance LGauss around 3 is a bad idea because more chassis can mount two than can mount three, and I'd rather tune the weapon for the majority.

And while we're at it: SN-PPC to 3x, pls...it's just not enough punch for the range at only two. Not worried about combos with ballistics because that's hot as balls.

[N0ni]

SnPPC to 3 wouldn't be bad, but i feel like it's in an okay place since they pair well with AC20s and SRMs for that burst damage punch.

LGauss just needs something more to make it worth taking, maybe keep it as is while removing charge-up as suggested many times before.

[MechaBattler]

Let's give energy draw another chance! Come on guys! Energy draw~!

[Y E O N N E]

N0ni, on 13 May 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

SnPPC to 3 wouldn't be bad, but i feel like it's in an okay place since they pair well with AC20s and SRMs for that burst damage punch.

LGauss just needs something more to make it worth taking, maybe keep it as is while removing charge-up as suggested many times before.

I really don't think charge-up is the problem. Running a pair instead of twin AC/10 on something with 6x ERML is not a half-bad build as-is because they run heat-negative and the velocity goes well with the beams at those ranges; adding a single point of damage might push it into "actually good" territory.

[Luminis]

Hitting the Deahstrike's typical combo isn't a bad idea, I do, however, think linking the MLs to everything essentially kills them completely for Assaults.

And on the IS in particular, hell no! IS Mechs don't build the sort of alpha that needs addressing, I think. There's some fun builds with ballistics and lasers out there which shouldn't be nerfed at all.

[El Bandito]

Just limit it to 5 max instead of 6 and go from there. Dunno why PGI yoloed it to 4 max.

[Mystere]

MechaBattler, on 13 May 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

Let's give energy draw another chance! Come on guys! Energy draw~!

The last iteration was heading to the same complexity as GH. So no.

[K O Z A K]

how about if we think the death strike is overperforming we nerf the deathstrike, not the weapons combo which will hurts mechs that are not over performing. They really need to stop with these blanket nerfs

[CK16]

Hazeclaw, on 14 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

how about if we think the death strike is overperforming we nerf the deathstrike, not the weapons combo which will hurts mechs that are not over performing. They really need to stop with these blanket nerfs

Eh, it isn't just the DS and nerf that they will nerf all MK II's....just like the Kodiak and Marauder IIC....RIP Spirit Bear .....

So no, stop nerfing Clan assaults or in general all assaults into barely mobile bunkers, not even a turrets bunker...

Edited by CK16, 14 May 2018 - 07:51 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

El Bandito, on 13 May 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Just limit it to 5 max instead of 6 and go from there. Dunno why PGI yoloed it to 4 max.

This, then link HLL with both sets of Laser grouping instead of dropping it so GH is triggered on 2.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 13 May 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Just limit it to 5 max instead of 6 and go from there. Dunno why PGI yoloed it to 4 max.

I figured it was supposed to drop the Alpha down to below 30, which is the normal alpha point when considering Ghost Heat.

[process]

Heat has always been the drawback to energy weapons. Ditch ghost heat, increase dissipation, lower the heat capacity, and you instantly solve high-alpha laser boating.

You'll still have some builds that exceed a reasonable pinpoint alpha, but those are few and far between, and can be dealt with in less surprising ways, e.g. the hard no-penalty multiple Gauss charge limit.

For instance, with a 30 heat cap, you could go back to Gauss + 2 PPC, using 1 heat Gauss and 10 heat PPC. Maybe running those three linked items reduces your heat cap by 10, reflected on your HUD so you see that you can only fire the Gauss and 1 PPC simultaneously. Clans would be affected more, since their individual weapons produce more heat, blunting the huge payloads they can field.

Ghost heat may achieve similar results, but it's absolutely terrible at communicating the penalties to the player. Fire 1/10 of a second too fast? Boom, +15 heat.

[Snowbluff]

process, on 14 May 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

Heat has always been the drawback to energy weapons. Ditch ghost heat, increase dissipation, lower the heat capacity, and you instantly solve high-alpha laser boating.

Then builds that aren't using as many lasers are punished for something they didn't do. WTF.

[process]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

Then builds that aren't using as many lasers are punished for something they didn't do. WTF.

The intent is to normalize lasers without injecting arbitrary rules, like ghost heat limits and linked weapons. I don't agree with this is 'punishing' in any way, rather bringing lasers in-line with the other weapon categories.

Edited by process, 14 May 2018 - 08:19 AM.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

I figured it was supposed to drop the Alpha down to below 30, which is the normal alpha point when considering Ghost Heat.

30 damage limit is for PPFLD weapons. I think PGI's intended limit for laser weapons is around 55 damage.