50 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

You know HBS BT isn't very clear on this...

What YEAR is it when we start?

[MustrumRidcully]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

I agree with you, but at the same time I think I was was just able to "go along with it." Princess Leia went from damsel in distress to blaster-wielding badass in the original trilogy, after all. But now that I think about it, Leia had the time span between the first movie and the next two to learn how to use that blaster and be a better help to the Rebellion. But now that I continue to think about THAT, Kamea probably had enough time between her weeks of picking out dresses and attending ballroom dances (and whatever the hell else space-royalty does in the BT universe) to attend mech-driver's-ed at least one weekend out of each month like an Army reservist. But I understand that doing politician stuff full-time shouldn't leave her much room to become a mechwarrior badass in her spare time. But on the OTHER hand (I know that's a lot of "buts" and I keep flip-flopping on this, but I'm trying to look at this from all angles), I understand the BattleTech universe was rife with many other personalities who are noble aristocracy yet find the time to become ace battlemech pilots while juggling affairs of state (Theodore Kurita comes to mind), long before Kamea Arano was even a notion in anybody's mind.

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

I mean in my (both gaming and real world) experience, politicians are never as skilled as hardened veterans in a combat role, yet some how Kamea is... hell she is better trained than you are at the start of the game...

I think one thing that is a bit forgotten here: She isn't just a politician. She is a noble. And mech owners are typically nobles. So it might not be so surprising that she is a skilled mechwarrior pilot, because that is part of her expected abilities, alongside with picking the right dress code for an event and how to behave and dance correctly on her ballroom dances.

What skill level she should have could be debetable, but having a dedicated mechwarrior trainer and not being an impoverished noble or an almost bankrupt mercenary is going to help a bit.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I would be ok with the Aurigan Coalition (Aurigan Reach) being added to lore. That area of the map is essentially a blank slate (at least in 3025), so why not.

I don't think it is as pure good as some believe, but I can't really elaborate without spoilers.

Overall though, I would be fine with it being made lore. It just helps to add more flavor to the universe.

[evilauthor]

MeiSooHaityu, on 16 May 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

I would be ok with the Aurigan Coalition (Aurigan Reach) being added to lore. That area of the map is essentially a blank slate (at least in 3025), so why not.

I don't think it is as pure good as some believe, but I can't really elaborate without spoilers.

Overall though, I would be fine with it being made lore. It just helps to add more flavor to the universe.

I checked. The area is literally blank on every non-HBS map that I could find all the way up to 3145. Even when the Magistry and the Taurians start a joint effort to colonize worlds in the space between them (where the Coalition is), the area they're colonizing runs under and around where Coalition space should be.

This is a 3130 map of the nation created out of the Canopian/Taurian colonization effort:


This is HBS' map.


Notice how the Fronc Reach's "eastern" worlds in 3130 are worlds just outside the Aurigan Coalition's borders in 3025.

If Espinosa's fear of "sharks" had been true, I would have expected at least some of the Fronc Reach's worlds would include Coalition Worlds. But they don't, implying the Coalition is still a going concern even in 3130.

[Leone]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

What do you think?

I actually like the way Kamea spent three years being all 'No, Mine!' trying to gain support to take back her rule simply because it'd been hers. And then weldry and the whole, 'Oh, $&!^ be real' revelation. I also like the whole fight just ruining the reach and destroying their best chance at making something of themselves with the loss of the Star-league Cache. Cuz, you know, greedy powergrab rather'n a proper archaeological retrieval during peace time.

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

I mean in my (both gaming and real world) experience, politicians are never as skilled as hardened veterans in a combat role, yet some how Kamea is... hell she is better trained than you are at the start of the game...

You gotta remember this is a feudal style rule of might system. Like knights in the middle ages these people are nobles because they have mechs. Nobles are oft the only ones who have Battlemechs, and yeah, even if they're rich enough to field a bunch of house mechs, they'll still want the loyalty of their soldiers, so they train to lead em, so as to avoid situations like the directorate rebellion that just wastes mechs and mechwarriors for no gain. (From the prospective of the reach, obviously those overthrowing for power get power out of it, but the reach as a whole is impoverished by it.) Also, you know, if someone drops on planet to take out the head of the house, would you rather be in the immobile unarmed building, or in the biggest most vicious mech you can field?

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 16 May 2018 - 09:33 AM.

[Leone]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

(WARNING: Below text contains a spoiler that is revealed late in the main plot)

If you mean the Directorate by "the other side", I would at least like to get a more complete picture on their side of the story and why Espinosa thought it was such a great idea to rebel against the Aurigan Coalition (and what exactly was the state of affairs when he decided to take over), and how he was able to present it as such a fantastic idea so as to flip a big enough portion of the Reach's military to stage a successful coup.
........ Even if Espinosa is still universally reviled by the player base, we would at least see why the "bad guy" thought he was honestly doing some good.

"Have you seen Comstar's new Galaxy map? The Reach isn't even on it! Not even a footnote unless you pay premium for the detailed rimward march section!"

"So here's the thing, Coromadir is suppose'ta be the capitol, right? Well it's right next to three perfectly good worlds, just right there ripe for the taking. Just like we're right next to the Concordat and the Capellans an the Fed suns. But if we can consolidate the houses, get some actual reach military rather'n everyone pitching in what house units they feel they can when we desperately need em... You remember the big kerfuffle back in 3018 (or whenever) right? It was a mess because instead of a consolidated army we've just a buncha disperate militia thinking only of themselves. I mean, we had to rely on mercenaries!"

And of course, no one listens, cuz they'd rather use their limited economic power to reinforce the economy or something silly, probably just looking to enrich themselves and their own positions rather'n thinking for the good of the reach.

I see Espinoza as a military man who lost his wife, and has no idea how to deal with the world outside of his wheelhouse. I mean, he raised his daughter like a solider and asked her to commit war crimes cuz it's all he knew, and didn't know how to deal with the populace in general once he took power. We can see this in his resort to a police state. He saw no doubt real problems, (No consolidation of power in the reach military, no rapid response to threats, etc...) and had good viable ways to solve those problems from a simple strategic standpoint. And couldn't get the council to sign off on them because, let's face it, he wasn't looking at the big picture, and with the kinda of power mad actions he took, he no doubt phrased every plan of action in a way that benefited him more'n them.

Also, since he couldn't seem to do anything against Kamea's march through the reach, I'm guessing he wasn't all that great a military commander, so there were probably some issues with his plans others saw that he couldn't.

Anyways, if you think about it, the cost in mechs lost in order to take control, oust the founding house and build a solid military with a rapid response able to jump to any point in the reach an respond in overwhelming force to any threat would've been worth it, if he'd gotten Kamea and been able to finish consolidating power. But, since we don't see huge response to the Weldry incident, we can surmise that he wasn't able to get his plans off the ground in the three years he had.

We can see in his eventual surrender that he's not a complete caricature. He eventually realizes he's lost and surrenders so that his remaining forces'll survive and the Reach wont lose even more mechs and men that it could never afford to throw away in the first place, but by then it's too late.

I'm just saying. If this was Crusader Kings, Battletech edition, I might not take too different a path. I'd just hope, you know, I was more competent at it.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 16 May 2018 - 11:39 AM.

[MechaBattler]

That really puts Espinoza into perspective, nicely put Leone.

Makes me wish that Battletech was a little like a cross between Crusader Kings and Total War. Including characters getting old and dying. And their children taking their place.

[Trystan Thorne]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Nah it's not just you. Even though I kicked off this topic and enjoy discussing lore in detail, I also get a kick out of pointing out some of the more ridiculous aspects of the BattleTech universe. I mean, just the fact everybody in the galaxy suddenly thought lapsing back into feudalistic governments was a great idea is enough to make me not take anything too seriously from the start.

Well, looking at today's world, it isn't that far fetched anymore.

I actually like the idea of feudalistic governments in BattleTech. Fits the theme quite well. And in the end, it's just SciFi anyway.

As for the HBS BT Campaign. It's decent enough. Note amazing, not bad either.
Reminds me of Shadowrun Returns. That had an okay storyline too. Shadowrun Dragonfall had a really good story though.
Maybe BT will be as lucky with an addon or sequel.

[Signal27]

Trystan Thorne, on 16 May 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Well, looking at today's world, it isn't that far fetched anymore.

I actually like the idea of feudalistic governments in BattleTech. Fits the theme quite well. And in the end, it's just SciFi anyway.

Oh don't mistake me saying that I don't take the BattleTech lore seriously to mean the same thing as disliking it. I actually like it. I don't take the Star Wars universe nor the Marvel cinematic universe too seriously either. Doesn't mean I don't like some of the films that came out of those universes.

[Trystan Thorne]

Signal27, on 16 May 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

Oh don't mistake me saying that I don't take the BattleTech lore seriously to mean the same thing as disliking it. I actually like it. I don't take the Star Wars universe nor the Marvel cinematic universe too seriously either. Doesn't mean I don't like some of the films that came out of those universes.

Didn't think that you don't like BT. The first part of my comment was really meant as a joke but I probably didn't use the right emoji.

[MischiefSC]

Kamea is a self-important young woman who had her whole family murdered by someone who was supposed to be her ally. She went all super-dramatic 'for the good of the people' and very Eva Peron. She's certainly not the first person to go all Mary Sue IRL when trying to take a leadership position in a nation.

It's also not hard to be a total BA in the mechs she was sporting.

I found her behavior reasonable, rational and realistic. What was contrived was how much of it was discussed out loud with a bunch of mercenaries but that was required for the sake of storytelling. I found Victoria the least realistic; a real puppy-kicker sort. Same with Taurian Admiral who got pretty much a whole task force to go rogue. Seriously? If that's the case then Taurian military training and forces are utterly pathetic. I would expect better discipline and ability to look at the realities of the situation (tens of thousands of people die in the conflict, millions die in wars in this universe pretty regularly but oh no this one guys kid who was literally on an incredibly dangerous mission by choice dies and protocol and military discipline goes out the window) from a 3rd grade soccer team.

Kamea was, to me, one of the more believable characters. The problem is that she's a very dramatic and central one and as such demands a very dramatic and central role - while not being the actual central character in the game, so there's this sense of over-disclosure and fighting for control of the story with the player.

I just want DLC where I can go hang in the Magistracy of Canopus and hook up some cat girl hotties to dance in my mech bay.

[MechaBattler]

MischiefSC, on 17 May 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

Kamea is a self-important young woman who had her whole family murdered by someone who was supposed to be her ally. She went all super-dramatic 'for the good of the people' and very Eva Peron. She's certainly not the first person to go all Mary Sue IRL when trying to take a leadership position in a nation.

It's also not hard to be a total BA in the mechs she was sporting.

I found her behavior reasonable, rational and realistic. What was contrived was how much of it was discussed out loud with a bunch of mercenaries but that was required for the sake of storytelling. I found Victoria the least realistic; a real puppy-kicker sort. Same with Taurian Admiral who got pretty much a whole task force to go rogue. Seriously? If that's the case then Taurian military training and forces are utterly pathetic. I would expect better discipline and ability to look at the realities of the situation (tens of thousands of people die in the conflict, millions die in wars in this universe pretty regularly but oh no this one guys kid who was literally on an incredibly dangerous mission by choice dies and protocol and military discipline goes out the window) from a 3rd grade soccer team.

Kamea was, to me, one of the more believable characters. The problem is that she's a very dramatic and central one and as such demands a very dramatic and central role - while not being the actual central character in the game, so there's this sense of over-disclosure and fighting for control of the story with the player.

I just want DLC where I can go hang in the Magistracy of Canopus and hook up some cat girl hotties to dance in my mech bay.

Cat girl hotties? Battletech is keeping up with anime trends?

[Metus regem]

MechaBattler, on 17 May 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Cat girl hotties? Battletech is keeping up with anime trends?

The Magistracy is one of the few places in the IS that is still producing porn (it's like their one note worth export), so likely?

[MechaBattler]

Metus regem, on 17 May 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Magistracy is one of the few places in the IS that is still producing porn (it's like their one note worth export), so likely?

That's established lore? xD

[Signal27]

Metus regem, on 17 May 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Magistracy is one of the few places in the IS that is still producing porn (it's like their one note worth export), so likely?

I find it hard to believe that absolutely nobody else in the Inner Sphere or even the periphery is producing porn. Especially given how easily accessible it is today.

What I would find more believable is that most porn made in the Inner Sphere is "normal" and "vanilla" stuff that's considered "tame." While the porn that comes out of the Magistracy, with their emphasis on being accepting of anything as long as everybody consents, to be of the more "exotic" (and perhaps downright disgusting) variety that would cater to more... unique tastes.

That said, I don't have much to back either of those statements with because that's just the impression I got from trying to read between the lines of the Magistracy and other Inner Sphere powers. Sex and sexuality never really get a thorough discussion in any of the BattleTech lore, I don't think. Which is par for the course in most gaming - even Slaanesh from 40k tones down what it otherwise alludes themselves to be like.

Edited by Signal27, 17 May 2018 - 03:11 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

That being said, I found her too marry sue if that makes any sense, I also would've liked the option to leave her on the ship, where she should've been on a few missions, as she would've been too tempting a target for the Directoret forces to ignore... like to the point where they should've ignored my Mercs and killed her, thus killing the restoration with her.

Ironically, Theodore Kurita used this sort of thing to his advantage, by having someone else pilot his Orion while he left the planet.

The Steiners who brought down that gem of the Legion of Vega were extremely torqued to find a very, VERY flamboyant LoV pilot had been riding in the thing for weeks.

As it stands with the Restoration, the civil war utterly hoses them as a functional entity. My guess is they gradually spiraled downwards until the systems ended up Canopian satellites, if not part of Canopus entirely.

Metus regem, on 17 May 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Magistracy is one of the few places in the IS that is still producing porn (it's like their one note worth export), so likely?

It's not so much porn as it is an entire hedonistic taste of Canopian culture, wrapped up in a traveling entertainment feature for which the term "show" is not even close to enough. It's basically a DropShip-sized dollop of decadence.

MischiefSC, on 17 May 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

I just want DLC where I can go hang in the Magistracy of Canopus and hook up some cat girl hotties to dance in my mech bay.

Forget the dancers. I need 4 Canopian catgirl pilots I can send out in pink Panthers to do missions with. Or three, with Glitch leading them wearing a kitty ears headband. She's no Josie, but she's goofy enough to make do.

[Fox the Apprentice]

MischiefSC, on 17 May 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

[...]
I just want DLC where I can go hang in the Magistracy of Canopus and hook up some cat girl hotties to dance in my mech bay.

Mad-Cats aren't in IS yet

[evilauthor]

Brain Cancer, on 17 May 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

It's not so much porn as it is an entire hedonistic taste of Canopian culture, wrapped up in a traveling entertainment feature for which the term "show" is not even close to enough. It's basically a DropShip-sized dollop of decadence.

Historically, Canopian genetic engineering and medical science was good enough to make REAL mermaids. Catgirls are relatively tame in comparison.

I don't know if they still have this level of medical knowledge in the present, but IIRC, Canopian medical doctors are very very good compared to doctors from anywhere else.

[Brain Cancer]

Fox the Apprentice, on 18 May 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

Mad-Cats aren't in IS yet

These are Mag-Cats, not Mad Cats.

[Koniving]

While trying to find files to mod for better AI behaviors... I discovered the faction settings. There is either a splinter faction or a "you betrayed the Arano restoration" faction, called Arano Restoration Betrayal. They are contracts to work for the Arano Restoration, where you're offered money and to "come back to us", and "like you've done for us in the past."

So whether this shows up later or not I'm not sure, but it seems like you can at some point betray them...and still be hired as money can still sway your "mercenary heart".