9 replies to this topic

[Iron Mercer]

While building mechs I was analyzing weapons choices, here are some interesting comparisons I determined based up on current release.

*Damage/10 seconds takes into account weapon cooldown and duration (but not ballistic jams).
*Best Damage/ton does not account for required ammo tonnage cost as that can vary by build.



Highest Damage: Clan(Stat) / Inner Sphere(Stat)
Ballistic: C-AC/20 (20) & C-LB20-X-AC (20) / HEAVY GAUSS RIFLE (25)
Energy: C-HEAVY LRG LASER (18) / HEAVY PPC (15)
Missile: C-ATM 12 (24) / ROCKET LAUNCHER 20 (40) or MRM 40 (40)

Best DMG/Ton Clan(Stat) Inner Sphere(Stat)
Ballistic C-MACHINE GUN (4) / MACHINE GUN (2)
Energy C-HEAVY SML LASER (13) / SMALL LASER (6.5)
Missile C-SRM (6 8) / ROCKET LAUNCHER 10 (40)

Best DMG/Heat Clan(Stat) Inner Sphere(Stat)
Ballistic C-GAUSS RIFLE (15) / GAUSS RIFLE (15)
Energy C-MICRO PULSE LASER (2) / SMALL LASER (2.95)
Missile C-LRM 20 (3.33) / ROCKET LAUNCHER (20 8)

Best DMG/10SEC Clan(Stat) Inner Sphere (Stat)
Ballistic C-AC/20 (50) / ROTARY AC/5 (109)
Energy C-LRG PULSE LASER (27.97) / HEAVY PPC (30)
Missile C-ATM (12 48) / MRM 40 (84.21)

[BTGbullseye]

You apparently didn't take into account that UACs can double tap for double the damage... Because there's no way that a Clan AC is ever going to outperform a Clan UAC for damage dealt.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 22 May 2018 - 02:26 AM.

[Iron Mercer]

BTGbullseye, on 22 May 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

You apparently didn't take into account that UACs can double tap for double the damage... Because there's no way that a Clan AC is ever going to outperform a Clan UAC for damage dealt.

True, good point. You can also usually more than double tap, not quite as quick as rotary but as good as Clan can manage for spitting fire. Also hard to calculate UAC since rapid firing the weapon is prone to mouse clicking and jams. Still for stat/trigger squeeze this remains true above. I'll have to consider how to factor in the UAC's for an update to this but I have an Excel book I'm using for considering the full list of weapons, I just don't have a good place to post/share it right now.

[Eisenhorne]

I'm not sure what you're trying to show here? Yes, the Heavy Gauss rifle does more damage than the C-AC20, but also weighs more, can only be torso mounted, and is so big that it requires you to take a standard engine. The damage a weapon does is only a part of what makes it the "best". Same with ATM12 vs MRM40.... the ATM is guided, and does 36 damage at optimal range. the MRM has a longer range than the ATM optimal, but is unguided. They aren't really comparable in any way.

[The Schwartz]

Large part of it too is some weapons work better on some mechs than others. LBX's spread but don't ghost heat so you can boat them more easily. UACs work really well on some varients and are constantly locked on others. ER's work better on some than others etc... etc... If it's just weapons on not quirked mechs then i could see it. UAC2 will have the most consistant due to it's quick unjam where it slows down the bigger it gets. Rocket launder 20 also deals 40 damage. It's cool to get the numbers for sure the ATM does 36damage at optimal so 72 over 10sec. But like MRM40 on vindicator wont be the same as MRM40 on Atlas. 10sec can be 80 damage or 120damage. Basically the short version is not so much the weapons punch but what the intent on use is. PPCS and LPL's would look simular on paper but there's very little facetime with a ppc vs an LPL. Clan laser boats tend to either run cooler or pack a bigger punch at medium range. The DPS on the micro pulse is going to be insane but i'm sure per tone 4x erml is 10dmg with double the refire of a heavy small at the same range. Lots to consider moreso than just the base stats is all i'm saying. Mech quirks have a huge impact on how weapons behave. This can translate into heat per ton and dps with specific weapons as well as 10% energy cooldown and 5% er cooldown on the same chasis can be better dps than a heavy ppc over 10sec kinda deally. Duration is a factor with lasers as well as some omni's have laser duration and cd quirks which really give an edge for lasers over ppcs. Assualts can typically boat UAC's so even if one or two jam the damage over 10sec wont be as drastically affected as they would as a light with a single uac/20 kinda thing too.
Other factors like velocity quirks are going to affect the damage delivery of weapons as well Less lead time, more munitions on target. Highly reccomend using smurfy's to better gauge the dps per mech rather than trying to get the base stats of weapons and trying to build a mech in a way those weapons don't favor it. Anywho, not trying to be a douche just saying might be worrying about base numbers that don't matter much is all.

[Iron Mercer]

Yes, good discussion. That's all this was for, thinking about pros/cons of weapon selection, not to declare a best weapon. The term best here is just best damage per ton/heat from raw weapon stats (lots of other variables definitely impact the final outcome but the weapons remain the baseline for that to start to come together). This is more about thinking about builds and what is the best bang for the buck when considering things like tonnage, heat, etc. There's plenty of additional factors such as quirks, ghost heat, mech limits, etc. I was just sharing some of my thought process and evaluation of the base weapons.

Playing around with the larger weapon list I did find it pretty effective for Inner Sphere assault mechs to combine two Rotary AC/5's with one MRM 40. Pretty big damage output and fairly sustainable when coupled with sufficient ammo and heat management.

[Eisenhorne]

Iron Mercer, on 22 May 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

Playing around with the larger weapon list I did find it pretty effective for Inner Sphere assault mechs to combine two Rotary AC/5's with one MRM 40. Pretty big damage output and fairly sustainable when coupled with sufficient ammo and heat management.

This is a good example of why damage output alone is not a good indicator of how a weapon performs. RAC5's and MRM40's have decent damage, but it's all spread damage, not pinpoint. Let's compare two Mauler builds...

2 HGR, 6 ML - https://mwo.smurfy-n...2b6ee490d1edd8b

2 RAC5, MRM40, 2 ML - https://mwo.smurfy-n...a9bd801717ef182

The HGR mauler has lower DPS and worse cooling, but you can deliver all that damage to a single enemy component instead of spreading it around their entire mech. I guarantee that you'll kill the second one with the first one all the time.

[BTGbullseye]

Just to help you out, here's a small listing I made of the ballistics in the game... (I don't consider MGs to be ballistics)

DP10s, Weapon Name, slots/tons, DP10s per ton, DP10s per heat.

30.00 DP10s C-Gauss    6s/12t  2.500/t 15.00/h
55.56 DP10s C-UAC2     2s/5t   11.11/t 2.500/h
60.00 DP10s C-UAC5     3s/7t   8.571/t 3.000/h
80.00 DP10s C-UAC10    4s/10t  8.000/t 2.857/h
100.0 DP10s C-UAC20    8s/12t  8.333/t 2.857/h
27.78 DP10s C-AC2      3s/5t   5.556/t 4.000/h
30.00 DP10s C-AC5      4s/7t   4.286/t 3.557/h
44.44 DP10s C-AC10     5s/10t  4.444/t 5.000/h
50.00 DP10s C-AC20     9s/12t  4.167/t 3.333/h
27.78 DP10s C-LBX2     3s/5t   5.556/t 5.000/h
30.00 DP10s C-LBX5     4s/7t   4.286/t 4.980/h
44.44 DP10s C-LBX10    5s/10t  4.444/t 5.000/h
50.00 DP10s C-LBX20    9s/12t  4.167/t 3.333/h
----------------------------------------------
30.77 DP10s LGauss     5s/12t  2.565/t 14.55/h
30.00 DP10s Gauss      7s/15t  2.000/t 15.00/h
50.00 DP10s HGauss     11s/18t 2.778/t 12.50/h
55.56 DP10s UAC2       3s/7t   7.936/t 2.500/h
60.00 DP10s UAC5       5s/9t   5.557/t 3.000/h
80.00 DP10s UAC10      7s/13t  6.154/t 2.857/h
100.0 DP10s UAC20      10s/15t 6.667/t 2.857/h
27.78 DP10s AC2        1s/6t   4.630/t 4.000/h
30.00 DP10s AC5        4s/8t   3.750/t 3.557/h
44.44 DP10s AC10       7s/12t  3.704/t 3.636/h
50.00 DP10s AC20       10s/14t 3.571/t 3.333/h
27.78 DP10s LBX2       4s/6t   4.630/t 5.000/h
30.00 DP10s LBX5       5s/8t   3.750/t 4.980/h
44.44 DP10s LBX10      6s/11t  3.704/t 5.000/h
50.00 DP10s LBX20      11s/14t 3.571/t 4.000/h

This of course considers that you double tap your UACs, and the weapons do not jam.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 22 May 2018 - 01:58 PM.

[The Schwartz]

Ahh okay, sorry seen alot of people do weird things to mechs just wanted to steer in the right direction if it was going that way lol.

[The Schwartz]

OOOO a pro and con list, i could maybe help there. I'm going to break this into Innersphere and clan Pros and cons rather than lump the two together as both play differently for the most part. I'm going to limit it to just pro's and cons of weapon types as the heat/dps stuffs is something you gots going.
PPCs
Pros: Does all it's damage on impact, does not need to be held on target after trigger is pulled, great for peeking around corners and over hills. Great for mechs with limited energy hardpoints. Breaks ECM on impact for 5 seconds.
Cons: For their weight PPC's offer little damage when compared to other energy weapons and generate heat rapidly. They have a minimum range of 80m and anything closer it will deal 0 damage to. PPCs offer the ability to shoot and retreat rapidly.
Light PPC Deals 5 damage, weighs 3 tons. If you're limited on weight but have extra energy hardpoints 2xlight ppcs weigh 1 ton less than the standard PPC counterpart and pack the same punch but generate 1 extra heat. Gives better range over other 5 damage energy counterparts without the need to stare at the target.
PPC:Deals 10 damage, weighs 7 tons. Great for mobile mechs that do alot of peeking.
ERPPC: Also deals 10 damage, 7 tons. Has no minimum range and +50% optimal range compared to all other ppcs at the cost of +50% heat. Mainly a sniper weapon, one where it's going to be the primary weapon. Requires alot of cooling. No min range means you can use this thing for all distance engagements heat permitting.
Snub Nose PPC:Deals 10 damage,6 tons no minimum range. -50% optimal range over standard ppcs. This one can be useful on highly mobile mechs, ones that will get close to their targets. Can put 10 damage in the area you want.
Heavy PPC: 15 damage, 10 tons. Same heat as an ERPPC but gets +50% damage instead of range at the cost of 3 extra tons. If you're energy hardpoint starved this can pack quite the punch. Has a slightly longer cooldown compared to other ppcs as well.

Short Range Missles.
Relatively high refire rates at the cost of ammo and range. SRMs fire as a cluster and require very little face time. SRMS are more effective the closer you get. Excellent weapon for brawler style setups and skirmishers that need to get in and out quickly.
SRM2: damage 4.3 weighs 1 ton.2 heat Incredibly fast refire rate compared to lasers. Can Fire 6 with no ghost heat.
SRM4: damage 8.6 weighs 2 tons. 3heat Simular fire rate to a medium laser (slightly faster) but more punch. Can Fire 4 with no ghost heat. Maintains a pretty steady grouping.
SRM6 Damage 12.9~weighs 3 tons. 4heat. Slightly higher fire rate compared to a medium laser. Same cooldown as ppcs. More damage, less heat, tends to spread more than the other SRMs. Weighs much less than it's ballistic counterparts at the cost of range and ammo consumption. Can fire 4 at a time with no ghost heat. Much more heat effecient per damage and ton than the other SRMs.
All SRMs can equip Artemis which will improve the accuracy at the cost of 1 ton per launcher, Also Artemis Launchers must be bought seperately from their standard counterparts and can get quite expensive. SRM 6 benefits the most from it but under 50m all SRMs are very accurate.
Streak SRM: 2 4 and 6 have the same refire rate as above, The benefit being they can lock on to targets which makes dealing with faster mechs abit easier. They come with quite a few drawbacks in comparason. They're not as heat effecient.
Streak SRM2 does 4 damage Streak SRM4 deals 8 damage and Streak SRM6 deals 12 damage. The require locks to use and cannot be dumbfired thus running a Beagle Active Probe at minimum is just about required and a Tag Laser is reccomended. They travel to their target from their launcher in the shortest path possible, Unlike their dumbfire counterparts if that path has a friendly inbetween it or the target runs behind a friendly, you'll most likely hit the friendly unit. Damage is also random where you can aim an SRM to where you want it to hit, you can fire streaks and hit multiple components at nearly any of its optimal distances. Versus largers mechs this can be magnified to the point that it feels you are doing very little damage to that mech.

Medium Range Missles
MRMs offer greater distances than their SRM counterpart at the cost of slots and tonnage. Unlike their SRM brothers they do not fire as a cluster but as a stream. They're not as accurate and artemis cannot be equiped on them. They can be fired twice the distance of an SRM and have no minimum distance but do get more accurate the closer you are to your target. Each ton of ammo holds 300 missles compared to 100 per ton of SRM and LRM counterparts. 1 SRM 6 gets 16.6 trigger pulls out of 1 ton of ammo vs a mrm 10 that gets 30. MRMs are great if you're limited on Missle Hardpoints but need that extra punch.
MRM 10: 10 damage 3 tons 4 heat- Same refire rate,heat, and tonnage as an SRM6 2.6 less damage but shoots 2x further.
MRM 20: 20 damage 7 tons 6 heat-Same refire rate 2x the damage for only 50% more heat but is 1 ton less effecient than 2x mrm10's but 2 heat more effecient. Slightly less accurate than MRM10
MRM 30: 30 damage 10 tons 9.5heat Same refire rate 3x the damage over the mrm10 30% more heat effecient than 3x mrm10's at the cost of 1 ton. Slightly less accurate than MRM20
MRM 40: 40 damage 12 tons 11.5 heat: Slightly Slower refire rate 4x the damage 25% more heat effecient than 4x MRM 10's for the same tonnage. Slightly less accurate than the MRM 30

Sorry i'll have to continue this later.