Possible Ammo Switching Solution
#1
Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:42 AM
If you add a C-ATM9, and have three types of Ammo for it (short, medium, long), could you not simply drop with three ATM9 weapons in your loudout in the game with the respective ammo count? Make it so that they are linked and can't be fired at the same time (which is a mechanic that exists for gauss, you can't fire the third if you have two already shooting)
If you want to go full ATM short range, you'll just have a no-ammo medium and no-ammo long ATM weapon in your loadout (much like the one time I forgot to switch my rac2 ammo into rac5 ammo on my king crab. Fun times.)
You can also go for two ways of implementing: you pick yourself which gets fired, or the game decides, but it would also free up some of the really fast light mechs to run outside the range of the missile's detonation, and therefore get no damage rather than being splattered at first shot.
The same could be done for incendiary LRM ammo etc. (or remove the no-ammo weapon from your weapons list if you decide not to take any ammo for it)
Ammo count would obviously have to be rebalanced per tonnage, specifically for ATM's, and to avoid invalid builds there may need to be a "mixed ammo" to replace the current ATM ammo to ensure that people who don't know drop without their ATM ammo.
#2
Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:51 AM
Think of them more like multistage rockets.
The ammo switching was a feature of the LBx autocannons in the table top game allowing a switch from scatter shot to solid slug.
At the time of the implementation of the weapons in MWO it wasn't catered for and instead of redoing the work on the weapons the clans ended up with the clan standard AC.
Or something like that.
#3
Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:19 AM
#4
Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:27 AM
50 50, on 22 May 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:
Think of them more like multistage rockets.
The ammo switching was a feature of the LBx autocannons in the table top game allowing a switch from scatter shot to solid slug.
At the time of the implementation of the weapons in MWO it wasn't catered for and instead of redoing the work on the weapons the clans ended up with the clan standard AC.
Or something like that.
No, ATM's had three types of ammo that let you choose what you wanted the ATM to function as, Extended Range, Short Range, Regular. Hence the 'Tactical' part of their name.
http://www.sarna.net...actical_Missile
#5
Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:32 AM
I like the idea and it could probably work but PGI won't go with something so patchy...
#6
Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:11 AM
50 50, on 22 May 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:
Think of them more like multistage rockets.
The ammo switching was a feature of the LBx autocannons in the table top game allowing a switch from scatter shot to solid slug.
At the time of the implementation of the weapons in MWO it wasn't catered for and instead of redoing the work on the weapons the clans ended up with the clan standard AC.
Or something like that.
Wrong. They use three different missile loads.
#7
Posted 22 May 2018 - 11:23 AM
#8
Posted 22 May 2018 - 01:06 PM
Edited by LordNothing, 22 May 2018 - 01:07 PM.
#9
Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:58 PM
cougurt, on 22 May 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:
The easy solution here is to just code it that when you hit the button to switch ammo, the weapon goes into its cooldown cycle. Because you know, you're pulling out one type of ammo from the weapon and replacing it with another.
The real question is the front end; what does a player need to do to switch ammo? Frankly, I'm partial to the idea of Shift+(Weapon Group Trigger) to make every weapon in a weapon group change cycle ammo types. It's simple and intuitive.
#10
Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:06 PM
while I dont believe its possible to have multiple fire modes and multiple ammo types on the same weapon. I do believe they can have multiple fire modes and a single shared ammo type. all that requires is a state change similar to ECM going from disrupt to counter mode.
LBX should be able to change states from slug to cluster. but both states would have to use the same ammo type.
50 50, on 22 May 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:
Or something like that.
theyre definitely ammo switching weapons. the whole point of ATMs was the ammo switching.
and ATMs should also not have a zero damage deadzone. that defeats the whole purpose of ATMs.
Edited by Khobai, 22 May 2018 - 07:19 PM.
#11
Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:48 AM
cougurt, on 22 May 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:
Actually, drop a mech with four gauss weapons and try firing all of them at once - it won't let you, it'll only let you fire two. That same code can be used to do the exact same thing for ATM, except it'll only let you fire one, and you share the cooldown on all three (like flamers). The code is already there, that's why I'm suggesting to implement it this way. The alternative is adding an ammo switch button and writing the code to go with that and all the bugs that come with trying to shoehorn that into the existing client etc, that's going to be a lot more work for pretty much the same end result.
I'll see if I can't take a few screenshots and do mockup views of it.
#12
Posted 23 May 2018 - 04:06 AM
Xumtiil, on 23 May 2018 - 12:48 AM, said:
Actually, drop a mech with four gauss weapons and try firing all of them at once - it won't let you, it'll only let you fire two. That same code can be used to do the exact same thing for ATM, except it'll only let you fire one, and you share the cooldown on all three (like flamers). The code is already there, that's why I'm suggesting to implement it this way. The alternative is adding an ammo switch button and writing the code to go with that and all the bugs that come with trying to shoehorn that into the existing client etc, that's going to be a lot more work for pretty much the same end result.
I'll see if I can't take a few screenshots and do mockup views of it.
it would prevent you from firing them all at the same time, but you would still be able to quickly fire them in sequence. i'm unsure if the flamer code could be repurposed to link them all to the same cooldown, but i imagine that too would cause problems if you were to equip multiple ATM launchers.
another issue that just occurred to me is that i believe there's a hard limit of 16 weapons, which you could easily exceed if each launcher were to be multiplied by 3.
#13
Posted 23 May 2018 - 04:44 AM
Does end up a lot more complicated than what I had imagined in my head
#15
Posted 23 May 2018 - 05:25 AM
Xumtiil, on 22 May 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:
No, the game won't let you put more then 16 weapons on a mech (i've tried so some reason). 5 ATMs and already 16 slots filled.
#16
Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:36 PM
I can't amend the title, I wanted to edit it to say [abandoned] because I do think the effort put into making this work would now equal or surpass the effort put into making a "Switch ammo" button, with all the extra junk and limitations that you've informed me about (especially the 16 weapon limit etc)
Thanks for the discussion though!
#17
Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:47 PM
Xumtiil, on 23 May 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:
I can't amend the title, I wanted to edit it to say [abandoned] because I do think the effort put into making this work would now equal or surpass the effort put into making a "Switch ammo" button, with all the extra junk and limitations that you've informed me about (especially the 16 weapon limit etc)
Thanks for the discussion though!
the dire wolf and i believe a couple other omnimechs can have more than 16 hardpoints. i think it just gives you an invalid loadout error and won't let you bring it into a match.
#18
Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:56 PM
#20
Posted 24 May 2018 - 01:39 PM
Additionally if you segregate ammo types you further make ammo tonnage efficiency worse to the point that the only designs that would even take ATMs are garbage tier no hardpoint variants.
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