18 replies to this topic

[Tier5ForLife]

I semi-hate to ask this but I need some help.

When I started this game I moved like a main battle tank with my torso twisting back and forth. I thought that was so cool.

Then my right wrist/hand surgery happened.

Here is where I'm at now and I need some tips to improve. I noticed that I was doing another form of "torso twisting". I'm using my movement buttons to move backward and using the keys to twist.

I need to get back to doing a twist with only my mouse. Here is an example where I'd love video or to watch someone play. I've never played "shooter games" and my use of both the keyboard keys and the mouse is poor. I'd like a webcam looking down on someone's hands and how they do things.

Sometimes I feel like someone saying to me "you need to torso twist" is like me trying to explain in chat on how they can do a crossover dribble.

I think I need to work on stretching my wrist but also to THINK about doing it. And instead of twisting fully from side to side, just doing one side.

I also moved my builds to something that will shoot 100% of the time so I just stand there and shoot. I need to get back to builds that fire and twist etc.

[Ruccus]

Initially you could start using mechs that you 'waggle' rather than torso twist, such as the Bushwacker. In a Bushwacker you just waggle the nose back and forth to spread damage instead of 'showing the shoulder' like you'd do with a humanoid mech.

Once your wrist builds up some strength through waggling you can switch back into humanoid mechs for some gaming stints to do full torso twists, then switch back if your wrist starts complaining before you're ready to stop the gaming session.

[Leone]

You could also try switching over to left handed mousing. But I totally agree with Ruccus about the waggle-mechs.

~Leone.

[TheCaptainJZ]

You could try a different kind of mouse that agrees with you wrist more. They have ones that are almost vertical with how your hand rests on them or maybe something like a trackmouse? Do they still make those?

Anyway, it's not that different than a console game with 2 joysticks. One controls the movement of the feet on the ground (in this case, more like a car with forward/ reverse and turning) and the other controls the viewing. You use the mouse to look up and down right? And just have trouble remembering to look left and right quickly?

[TooDumbToQuit]

How many players twist one side and how many can do both?

And here is a HUGE question I keep forgetting to ask. And that is, how does a mech now compare mobility wise with the odd skill tree compared to the new one?

In other words, if I wanted to make an exact mech of an old style fully maxed skill tree mech, where and how many points would I use?

When the new skill tree came out I semi-freaked about it and moved a lot of skill nodes there. It seemed like all my mechs were sluggish. On my Hellbringers, how much "Yaw" do I need to add to have it like it used to be? I have zero idea.

And part of this is mental I'm sure. I'm not used to doing it. I need someone in my ear yelling "TWIST!", lol. I'm even getting a mixture of using movement buttons and the mouse to twist. But one thing I know I have to get better at is twisting and finding the same target quickly.

And if you are using LRMs or ATMS, you have to keep the target locked with leads to damage. I'm not the guy firing LRMs from two valleys away, lol.

I do know about the "waggle" and I use it with Stalkers etc.

And I find this funny. This is NOT a question you would ask your surgeon or doctor about, lol

[Spheroid]

I would advise pseudo-twisting by rocking back and forth on the throttle while facing perpendicular to your mech direction while shooting. On something like a crab or Bushwacker this approach will work fine for spreading damage.

You can also throttle rock medium to long range builds that are humanoid like Hellbringers and Battlemasters. Throttle rocking only fails in close quarters. Stay in the back and shoot straight is my advice.

[Koniving]

For the most part the old skill tree had things like (after completing elite which doubled basics)... 55% faster acceleration, 50% faster braking (what's 50% faster than instant?! Ask a Locust). Think it was 54% faster torso twisting... Yeah it was kinda ridiculous. Max heat and cooling by consequence of the same old skill tree was higher than it is now, even though back then we had 1.4 DHS and now we have 1.5 DHS.

Of course the engine desync is another factor, so back then if you shoved a 400 engine in an Atlas you were twisting faster than most lights could.

Basically the new tree brought back big stompy robots... and the firepower and survival trees made it even easier and more necessary to go full on laser/ballistic/missile vomit.

LikeUntoGod, on 24 May 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

And here is a HUGE question I keep forgetting to ask. And that is, how does a mech now compare mobility wise with the odd skill tree compared to the new one?

Max out mobility and operations... that's the closest you can get.
You'll still fall horrendously short.

LikeUntoGod, on 24 May 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

In other words, if I wanted to make an exact mech of an old style fully maxed skill tree mech, where and how many points would I use?

Also go for a 5% cooldown bonus.

[Koniving]

[Sjorpha]

One of the main "level-up" things to understand about good torso twisting well is that it isn't a reactive maneuver.

You don't torso twist primarily in response to being shot, it's often already too late by then. What you need to do is torso twist proactively to shield in the direction you predict the incoming fire will come from, and to already have your torso twisting at full speed when the enemy laser burn starts.

You also should incorporate routinely torso twisting as part of your shooting pattern even if you're not currently being fired upon, so that the normal state of your torso is to be in motion.

Also note that torso twisting is mech specific. Some mechs want to just wiggle to spread across a narrow from profile (stalker, marauder etc). Some mechs have a shield side to tank with and wants to twist all the way and some mechs wants to swing back and forth between both sides. Some mechs have arms that can be swung up or down as you twist to shield better (for example the King Crab can shield torsos by opening the claws and swinging the arms up, and it can also shield it's bottom rear CT by pulling arms down and fully twisting to a side.)

Legs and torso should twist together most of the time, because that's moving your torso twice as fast and for many heavier mechs that is the difference between useful and useless torso twisting.

Finally there is keeping track of how damaged you are in different components and adapt the shielding to that. Deadsided mechs should keep tanking damage with destroyed STs (unless they are also CT cored) since they provide substantial damage reduction.

TL:DR:
1. Torso twisting should be proactive, not reactive.
2. Twist according to your hitboxes and build, don't play all mechs the same.
3. Always take full advantage of your combined twist and turn speed.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Well it depends on the mech as if you waggle or actually turn the torso only. Atlas, turn the torso, but the stalkers bushwackers you waggle.

Now as to your surgery, I had a right wrist injury for a bit and played left handed, but I am one of those people that could play baseball left or right handed and even pitched with both arms a few times. So I know it is hard to do, but it hurt less playing left handed. Just play LRMs to get the hang of it with some ERML's or the various large lasers. The warhawk is perfect with 3 LRM 15's with 2 ERLL's and TAG to do this. Limited ammo, but it forces you to use the ERLL's and to relearn how to aim with normal weapons while playing left handed, and allows you to get some damage in while relearning how to aim. Some people have even learned how to play with their feet and get 1000 damage games!

Then there is the upper part of the mobility skill tree. That can enhance the speed and range of torso twisting. Some mechs just do not twist that fast or that much, but the Nova Cats seem to have greater torso speed and range of motion than other heavies.

As to using the WASD to help torso twist, it can work, but It has lead me to get nailed in the back and some mechs with great range of torso twisting like the griffin that may not be advised.

[MM Overlord]

OMG, WHY none mention WHY to torso twist????

How bad players are forumers????

Ok OP, read here: you have to show a side torso, BECAUSE you shield CT AND even when it gets destroyed, you earn a DMG REDUCTION to CT.
So yes, if for instance a laser boat doing 42 dmg hits you while showing your dmged torso, he ai0t going to do 42 dmg, but far less: 21!! YES 50% less damage.

SO YES, TORSO TWIST.

[justcallme A S H]

LikeUntoGod, on 24 May 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

And here is a HUGE question I keep forgetting to ask. And that is, how does a mech now compare mobility wise with the odd skill tree compared to the new one?

In other words, if I wanted to make an exact mech of an old style fully maxed skill tree mech, where and how many points would I use?

Some mechs actually got BETTER from desync. A few lights/meds etc, once you hit up a lot of mobilty tree.

Many Assault/Heavy got worse though.

Pity you're once again getting incorrect/bad advise from the usual suspects.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 May 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[Cloves]

+1 on the logitech trackball mouse. They still make it, and it's sensitive enough to play this game with but only has two buttons + wheel on the base model. There is a 4 button that I have not tried. This will allow you to game with a wrist brace.

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

+1 on the logitech trackball mouse. They still make it, and it's sensitive enough to play this game with but only has two buttons + wheel on the base model. There is a 4 button that I have not tried. This will allow you to game with a wrist brace.

There is also the Kensington brand that has newer designs for less expense... Have gotten several for my mother's use. (work and home) The only one that broke was her fault. (spilled a full glass of water into it) 100% gaming worthy, if you can get used to the ball.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 27 May 2018 - 02:24 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I found that thinking about it and doing it all the time helped. I used to always jerk away after firing. I got lazy, I'll blame it on pian.

Thanks, everyone.

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 02:24 AM, said:

There is also the Kensington brand that has newer designs for less expense... Have gotten several for my mother's use. (work and home) The only one that broke was her fault. (spilled a full glass of water into it) 100% gaming worthy, if you can get used to the ball.

. Can you lock your wrist with that model and just use your thumb to mouse and your fingers to click?

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 30 May 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

. Can you lock your wrist with that model and just use your thumb to mouse and your fingers to click?

Depends on the one you pick... They also make ones with the ball in the center with the buttons on both sides, and a touch sensor scroll wheel.

[Tier5ForLife]

I used to use 4 of the great Logitech rollerballs before they were forced to admit they stole it and they made another.

I would play 5 EverQuest Accounts on 4 PC at the same time, lol. (they had "auto-follow") So I'd have my own 5 man group. In fact, I had four 5 man groups. I had players everywhere, all over the huge map.

But you cannot aim in MWO with one. I've tried. And torso twisting? Nope.

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 30 May 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

Depends on the one you pick... They also make ones with the ball in the center with the buttons on both sides, and a touch sensor scroll wheel.

. Yeah, never been able to game with those, but the thumb ones are great for carpal tunnel folks.