43 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 27 May 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

IS are much more hardpoint limited than the Clams and will likely stay that way (PGI ain't gonna inflate the old mechs).

We need IS omnis in order to push hardpoint numbers.

[Cloves]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

We need IS omnis in order to push hardpoint numbers.

Worried they will lock engines at XL

[El Bandito]

Cloves, on 27 May 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

Worried they will lock engines at XL

They will. And to compensate, PGI could add a pile of quirks. After all, there is a huge difference between a locked IS XL engine and a locked Clan XL engine. Same deal with locked IS Endo/Ferro/DHS, and locked Clan Endo/Ferro/DHS.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 May 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[Averen]

lazorbeamz, on 27 May 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

There are two ways to count damage. Damage per ton and damage per heat. Neither is more important then the other one because you cant really shoot overheated either. Clans get damage per ton advantages. IS gets damage per heat advantages. Plus the bonus armor ofc.

It's not really that simple, isn't it. IS mechs have larger DHS, heavier engines and generally less slots available. Clan gets also higher alpha and more range.

And your comparision doesn't even fit; the IS ER medium laser - which is a quite popular weapon! - has less range and is just as heat inefficient as the clan laser, despite the latter having 40% more damage. No sane human should think that's sensible.

Hence clan laser mechs are ridiculous. IS quirks and tree hardly make up for it. Even quirks like 10% less heat/cooldown do not make up for 40% more damage and more range.

Edited by Averen, 27 May 2018 - 12:26 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

When you look at cool down are you also factoring in Laser Burn times? As cycle time doesn't start till the burn is over, and LL of any class have longer burn times than the mediums of any class.

[Xetelian]

Koniving, on 27 May 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

Welp for 5 tons I can have 25 damage from from 5 medium lasers.
Or I could have a single large laser doing 9 damage...

Huh.
What's the better choice?

That's another example of over simplifying things and taking them to the extreme.


270m is really really short, its brawl range. It isn't like these 5 MedLasers are hitting 500m.

[cougurt]

Shadowomega1, on 27 May 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

When you look at cool down are you also factoring in Laser Burn times? As cycle time doesn't start till the burn is over, and LL of any class have longer burn times than the mediums of any class.

technically the IS standard medium laser has a shorter cooldown than the ER large if you factor in the burn time, but it's still only a marginal difference.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

We need IS omnis in order to push hardpoint numbers.

Pls pls pls pls pls

[Koniving]

Xetelian, on 27 May 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

That's another example of over simplifying things and taking them to the extreme.


270m is really really short, its brawl range. It isn't like these 5 MedLasers are hitting 500m.

That's the trade off for dealing over twice the amount of damage, but see the follow up to that.

Also if they were limited to 2 or 3 on ghost heat, it would probably be another story too. But they're not but the bigger, heavier, weaker option is.

[justcallme A S H]

FupDup, on 27 May 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

You're ignoring the heat, range, hardpoint, and critslot disadvantages.

You'd make a great fit for the PGI balancing team.

Lol.

Didn't you know LBX2s are better than AC2s?

[El Bandito]

justcallme A S H, on 27 May 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Didn't you know LBX2s are better than AC2s?

Is that extensively tested, cause I am always curious about which one is actually better. The LBX2 has close to thrice the chance of critting, after armor is gone, but the AC2 is pin point and can focus damage much better beyond 350 meters.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

Is that extensively tested, cause I am always curious about which one is actually better. The LBX2 has close to thrice the chance of critting, after armor is gone, but the AC2 is pin point and can focus damage much better beyond 350 meters.

Note that the tone of Ash's comment was meant to be sarcasm, since word on the street is that the LB 2-X is supposedly the better of the two (called a "direct upgrade" by some).

LB 2-X advantages:
-Lower heat
-Greater potential range
-Crit-seeking

AC/2 advantages:
-Only 1 critslot
-Pinpoint

On paper it looks stacked towards the LB 2-X, but IMO I prefer the much more compact AC/2 (literally the most slot-efficient weapon in the game).

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 27 May 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Note that the tone of Ash's comment was meant to be sarcasm, since word on the street is that the LB 2-X is supposedly the better of the two (called a "direct upgrade" by some).

LB 2-X advantages:
-Lower heat
-Greater potential range
-Crit-seeking

AC/2 advantages:
-Only 1 critslot
-Pinpoint

On paper it looks stacked towards the LB 2-X, but IMO I prefer the much more compact AC/2 (literally the most slot-efficient weapon in the game).

What about CAC2 vs. CLBX2 then? They have the same slot requirement.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 27 May 2018 - 05:38 PM, said:

What about CAC2 vs. CLBX2 then? They have the same slot requirement.

Clam LB 2-X Advantages:
-Crit-seeking
-Lower heat

Clam AC/2 Advantages:
-Pinpoint

In this case it's probably a win for the LB-2.

[Y E O N N E]

If the IS LB-2X was one slot smaller, I could justify using it a lot more. But at 4 slots, it's 1 slot too many to really use effectively on anything. I'd rather take an AC/5 for that cost.

[justcallme A S H]

Lol yeah my comment was definitely NOT serious... Just past commentary from bad advice givers.

AC2s are better in most instances. Some Solaris builds use a mix of LBX2/AC2 for other reasons but AC2 pinpoint cannot be beaten.

cAC-2 suck pretty badly being non pinpoint/multi pallet , you'd prob go cLBX2 in that instance.

[Y E O N N E]

cAC/2 are identical to isAC/2 except that they have more range, weigh less, and cost two more slots. They still fire one slug.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 May 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

cAC/2 are identical to isAC/2 except that they have more range, weigh less, and cost two more slots. They still fire one slug.

I hate having to point that out every time people talk about how "Clan ACs fire in bursts."

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 May 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

cAC/2 are identical to isAC/2 except that they have more range, weigh less, and cost two more slots. They still fire one slug.

Ha I've never used them, only heard them whizz past my head with that odd noise that sounds multi. I happily stand corrected.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 May 2018 - 07:05 PM.

[FupDup]

justcallme A S H, on 27 May 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ha I've never used them, only heard them whizz past my head with that odd noise that sounds multi. I happily stand corrected.

The Clan [U]ACs never got their firing sounds changed when they were buffed to fire 1 less shell, thus making the firing sounds feel a bit awkward sometimes.