95 replies to this topic

[Xiphias]

Old dirty B, on 30 May 2018 - 12:51 AM, said:

24 individuals put more or less randomly together to form up two teams... you didn't sign a contract or made agreements to fulfil a certain job or task.

To be pedantic, you did agree to the ToS, effectively (literally?) a contract, which has certain criteria for what you do in a match. You are expected to make a certain effort to contribute towards winning the match.

To the main point, while the LG build isn't the most optimal you can certainly make it work if you have sufficient backup lasers and play it well, (e.g. this album of consecutive matches I did to prove a point for something else https://imgur.com/a/QMGa6).

Your bigger problem isn't with your build, it's with your positioning. As a fast mech such as the Cicada you should never have mechs on your team dying before you've even had a chance to get a shot off (ignoring that occasional suicidal light on your team). If half of your team was dead before you saw the enemy you were way, way, way out of position. You should be making first contact and getting a quick shot or two off as you spot the enemy for your team. Once you've made contact and know where the enemy is, then you can start to work on flanking.

One thing I see a lot of players do wrong is flanking. Flanking is not about running all the way around the map so that you can shoot the enemy team in the back. When flanking you should usually stay withing 1 or at most 2 grids from your team. That's all you need in 90% of situations and until you know when the 10% is you should probably avoid getting far away from your team. It's asking to be out of the fight, get picked off by a group of lights, or both.

When your flanking, worry less about shooting backs and more about getting good angles to the side of your team. Your goal as a Cicada isn't to put out massive damage on the enemy team, that's what assaults and heavies are for. What your goal should be is to divide attention away from the main group. If you shoot a target from the side they have to divide their attention between you and your team which means both can put damage on it. If you engage alone they can deal with it much more easily. Simply playing angles on the side and being annoying can do a lot more for winning a match that just trying to put out the highest personal damage. The other thing that you can do with that build is focus on trying to pick crit components/mechs that are trying to retreat away from your team.

Keep in mind that in any mech, every second that your team is engaged and you aren't is a determent to your team's chances of winning. Avoid trying to be clever, and focus on being effective and I think you'll see a lot less complaining.

[Old dirty B]

Xiphias, on 30 May 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

To be pedantic, you did agree to the ToS, effectively (literally?) a contract, which has certain criteria for what you do in a match. You are expected to make a certain effort to contribute towards winning the match.

Agreeing to the TOS is not a contract or agreement to do a certain task or job - there are a few rules that state what you shouldnt do in a match but none that specifies what you exactly should do... certainly not something that can or should be"enforced" by others.

Anyway, my point is not that one should be able to simply mess around but more so that how you contribute, what effort you put into the game is ENTIRELY up to you and none of the business of others...

BTW, the people that are complaining about OP probably are violating the TOS as opposed to OP who just tried to be an asset in his own way (regardless if that is effective or not).

Edited by Old dirty B, 30 May 2018 - 02:51 AM.

[eminus]

Old dirty B, on 30 May 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

Yeah im bitter against complainers - and there are lots of them in MWO community.

Perhaps my point didn't came trough, im not saying you shouldn't care to win or just mess around because others are failing (too). Foremost people should stop complaining and pointing to others!

OP seems genuinely trying to be an asset and contribute to winning in the game and most of us do that in their own way. It already shows that OP started this thread and is "making notes", he's learning... There are many ways to learn, by simply copying what others do, doing what others say - but you can also learn by doing and trying things yourself - experimenting. Or just by playing the game as you want, even that builds up experience.

So im actually advocating to improve oneself rather then trying to ***** about others, the system and what else you can ***** about...

complaining about complainers....KLASSIK!

[Old dirty B]

Lol yeah, well with that argument you can stop any discussion. Anyway, my response was targetted at OP and support him to play the game as he prefers and not so much targetted at the complainers (even they are “allowed” to do what they want - im just ignoring that).

[Asym]

OP, play anything you want: QP isn't a team match. The pundits saying "you are selfish" or anything else are confused it seems? MWO isn't about teams anymore, S7 is about individuals...... QP and FP, are "side shows" to S7 and a soon to be seen MW5.

Team play had it chance for several years and the team concept just wasn't working for PGI and they pulled the plug on teams.... Otherwise, we'd seen a revitalized, revamped and rebuilt Civil War/Faction Play system with a new game engine ! Of course, PGI could go back there after they realize that MW5 will pay the bills or they could shut down everything but S7 and QP.... Who knows. It will be whatever is the easiest path to revenue is......make no mistake about that.

Play what you want. Do what you want and ignore the pundits that find fault...... If you are having fun, keep on having fun ! At least, you are playing !!!!!!

[RickySpanish]

OP talks about "League levels of cancer" and bandies around that sad, tired and overly dramatic word "toxic" and wonders why the game went to pot. You're the problem OP: Grow up.

[MTier Slayed Up]

What word would you substitute toxic with? Negative attitude? Not sure why that's some how a focal point of criticism, but whatever tickles your pickle, I guess.

I know the feeling with OP, it's nothing new though. A few years ago, I'd play the Cheetah with 2 ERL-L without a care in the world, would pull in decent numbers, and I'd still have people ranting and raving over VOIP or spamming text about "you didn't do anything this game, you didn't help, your build sucks, meeeeh" until the scoreboard pops and then it goes awkwardly quiet...Because the same people that complain 99% of the time about someone else, didn't focus on their own game, and did 50-60 dmg.

You're not alone.

[R Valentine]

The front line is where most games are won or lost in QP. "Flankers" are almost always useless, because they either die very quickly because they get caught alone or they're too busy hiding to do enough damage. Once the death ball gets rolling it's very hard to stop, so either you get the first 2 kills and start the death ball yourself or the enemy team does it for you and runs it over. Flanking in a Cicada 3M doesn't contribute to that goal at all, so I'm not surprised you noticed incredibly diminished match performance piloting that mech.

[Kasumi Sumika]

Cicada 3M? Try this

[JC Daxion]

i play cicadas, that is not a good build..

2 ERPPC's or a heavy PPC would be far better for what you are doing, or the 3 ERLL as someone else stated.

2 large pulses is a decent medium range build.

I do have fun with a UAC or rotary with 4 ERML's too but runs hot.


As a fast medium/light flanker/sniper it is your job to engage the enemy first! You should be shooting at people getting them to turn, or think twice about where the main group is. You stated by the time you got into position 6 people were dead, How is that even possible? Ithere is no reason why a 130KPH+ mech can't be first to engage.

You need to rethink your strats/build for sure if you want to play a helpful sniper.

[ShiverMeRivets]

If your team got wiped out before you even fired a shot it means that it took you way to long to get into position. On the other hand, if they get destroyed that bad another cicada would not have made a difference.

I personally have a deep dislike toward snipers - in any game and real life. However, in QP play any way you want, no one can tell you what to do. It is just a matter of common curtesy to try and contribute something towards winning, and a sniper can do that much.

[Eisenhorne]

All the people saying, "It's not a team game, who cares, do what you want" are very annoying. This is a team game. To pretend otherwise to "stick it to the man" because "PGI doesn't care about teamwork" is being spiteful to those who actually want to have fun.

It is a team game. You're on a team of 12. You should always try to help your team by taking a mech that can actually contribute to the fight. Maybe it will work out that you can't contribute much (if you love LRMs, for example, and bring an LRM mech to Solaris City), but at least you planned on trying to contribute.

OP, it sounds like you thought you'd be able to do some damage with your light gauss, and contribute to your team. That's fine, your heart was (probaby) in the right place, the issue was execution of the build. A single light gauss doesn't do anywhere near enough damage. Just tweak it, and you'll be fine.

DO NOT listen to people saying it's not a team game. They're just bitter.

[R Valentine]

ShiverMeRivets, on 30 May 2018 - 06:10 AM, said:

If your team got wiped out before you even fired a shot it means that it took you way to long to get into position.

^This. 1 mech I can see, but how in the world did it take you 4 mechs worth of time to get to your "sniper" spot? Your performance is lacking if 4 of your teammates are down before you even fire a shot. Exceptions might be playing a brawler on Polar, but you clearly weren't so what gives?

[MischiefSC]

Solo snyper builds are **** in QP and largely worthless. A passable light pilot in a Must Lynx or Piranha is 100x more useful. So is, well, almost anything else.

The entire premise of the build is to hope to vulture some kills while your team gets smashed 12 v 11.

[Xiphias]

Old dirty B, on 30 May 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

Agreeing to the TOS is not a contract or agreement to do a certain task or job - there are a few rules that state what you shouldnt do in a match but none that specifies what you exactly should do... certainly not something that can or should be"enforced" by others.

Anyway, my point is not that one should be able to simply mess around but more so that how you contribute, what effort you put into the game is ENTIRELY up to you and none of the business of others...

BTW, the people that are complaining about OP probably are violating the TOS as opposed to OP who just tried to be an asset in his own way (regardless if that is effective or not).

As I said, it was a pedantic point. It is a contract/agreement limiting what you can and cannot do. Is it strict? No, but it does exist. As for enforcement, that's on PGI not the players. Regardless, I wasn't arguing against your main point, just stating that what you said wasn't strictly true. That's why I said it was pedantic.

That said, while you can choose the level of effort you put in you are on a team (sans Solaris 1v1) and as a result your actions affect your teammates. Playing sub-optimally is a choice and in some ways it's a selfish choice (in that a player is putting their personal fun ahead of their team). While it's their right to do so it's also their teammates' right to complain about it if they want to (as long as they do it in a way that isn't violating the Tos).

If you are on someone's team it is their business how much effort you put in because it directly affects the quality of their match. If you don't want people to care how you play then go play 1v1s, otherwise on a team people are going to care. People that just play to have fun (and aren't doing 1v1s) are generally relying on their teams to pull them to victory. For better or worse that's just how it is.

My point here isn't to tell players to play one way or the other, but simply that if you make certain choices you can expect certain consequence and you should probably be prepared to deal with them. It's rather silly that the OP had a few games where their team called them out for being useless (from the description, it seems accurate tbh) and it upset them enough that they felt they needed to make a thread complaining about it (complainers complaining about complainers complaining about complainers... ad nauseam). I at least made an effort to try and help give some pointers.

All that said, we more or less agree on the issue. I think this sums it up nicely:

Quote

So im actually advocating to improve oneself rather then trying to ***** about others, the system and what else you can ***** about...

[PurplePuke]

Hey OP,

The flanker/sniper role is difficult to play well. Like others have said, it's imperative that you start pressuring the enemy early if you want to have any effect on the game.

If you've lost teammates before you're even in position, you're not doing it well. You simply have to be pressuring the enemy as soon as possible and causing them to pause their advance, turn to face you, whatever. Make them feel like their position isn't secure.

For the sniping/flanking role, the Cicada 3M is pretty darn good. But for better results sniping and flanking with it, switch your weapons. A single light gauss won't get you the results you want.

I've played tons of Cicada 3M, usually with 2x LPL. You have to be closer to the enemy than light gauss, but it's tons of fun, and you can really mess with the enemy.

Good luck!

[mistlynx4life]

I tend to agree with the play-as-you-want sentiment. It's not like you're going to carry the match and your armor wasn't a significant amount in the rotation. I'd spend a little time in the Testing Grounds to find the quickest routes to where you're heading and then don't be afraid to be a little visible at the right time. If you're behind the enemy and they're pushing on your team, don't focus on one target - hit all of them when they aren't being shot at. Make them know there's a sniper behind them. Suddenly get visible. Really grab their attention (cap the base or something if you need to) and maybe pull a few back. You've got the speed to re-position. Sniping, per se, isn't usually a good tactic for all the reasons you're experiencing (takes too long, salt happens, etc.) but you can definitely harass at long-range and make a difference. Just realize you aren't playing a tactic that's meant to get kills as much as it hopes to distract - so communicating with your team is really important to time the flanking.

[Grus]

Eisenhorne, on 29 May 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

If you want to run a sniper Cicada 3M, the best build to use is 3 ER Large Lasers with ECM, no stealth armor. Their levels of vitriol were probably a bit over the top, you didn't really deserve the hate as much as an assault doing 28 damage would, BUT, even in the best case, your single light gauss poking isn't going to do much. If you swap it for a more effective build, they'll have a lot less reason to complain.

Yeah I mean it's better than a executioner doing 12...

Now back to OP; Speaking of assaults... I'm not one to tell you what you should or should not drop while solo pugging but you need to understand that if you are going solo you have 100 tonnes of available contribution to the match you are searching for. So if you're d roping in a mech with half that weight you need to bring something that hits above it's weight class. Or you as a pilot need to be taking mech's off the field not just distracting them.

To be clear, 1 light gauss is a paint chip of damage on a push. Easier to ignore and push into the 11 guys that are now outnumbered, and out gunned. Then deal with the "fly" at your leisure.

Edited by Grus, 30 May 2018 - 06:56 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Grus, on 30 May 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

Now back to OP; Speaking of assaults... I'm not one to tell you what you should or should not drop while solo pugging but you need to understand that if you are going solo you have 100 tonnes of available contribution to the match you are searching for.

I was under the impression QP matchmaker tries to keep the number of each class relatively equal. Now, that's kind of a problem because it considers an Annihilator as useful as a Gargoyle, which is bad for obvious reasons, but it's not like by taking a medium mech you're shorting your team 60 tons.

[Gwahlur]

Asym, on 30 May 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

with a new game engine !

You say that like it's an easy or even remotely feasible thing for them to do. It's not