83 replies to this topic

[Old dirty B]

Besh, on 30 May 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

Nope . That is a WAY too generalized answer . You simply can not discuss the capabilities of the entire LightClass in broad sweeps....cos they are WAY too varied .

Considering the title "SHOULD EVERY LIGHT BE AN "ANTI-LIGHT"?" i was in the assumption this thread was about lights in general. So my advice applies to the typical light which is faster, smaller and has a lower profile then the other weight classes. If you run a light that differs from the stereotype of course different tactics and strategies should be applied.

[Asym]

MWO lost control of "roles" years ago. The arms race created the "mini-assaults" to appease the FPS pilots and to expand sales.

OK, here we are and the relationships centuries of warfare created (cavalry scouting well ahead of the FLOT; fighters protect bombers; destroyers screen surface warfare task forces, etc....) have been ignored in favor of "everybody" is an assault: look at my scores ! With kills and damage as the gauge to becoming "GuD", roles went out the window. No roles, no combined arms, no combined arms and you get "linear" warfare theory where combat mass rules the day; not individual initiative, skill or courage was necessary... You are reaping what you've sown.....it's what the players demanded.....

This thread is a symptom of the disease meritocracies create: that everything is based on where you stand on the leader board as an individual.... First Person Shooter isn't a team because "first" is "I accomplished" not "we" accomplished....

So, if the mini-assaults start eating you lunch in the rear, "I am not responsible for you" because there is no "we" in MWO anymore nor is the strategic intent of this game "we".........It's called Solaris and that is an arcade FPS and lights can fight assaults and everybody should be happy enough to buy a mech pack..... Or, is that really what everybody wanted??

[Alexander of Macedon]

My advice would be to ignore the bad assaults crying about you not protecting them. Sometimes it can be the smart thing (either because you're right there and they obviously can't handle themselves or because it's free kills), but most of the time the team will be better served by you killing people instead of scaring off enemy lights for a minute or two.

[LordNothing]

that really depends. if you are an assault or slow heavy you need to know anti-light tactics for your very survival. if you are a medium then squirrels are kind of your intended prey, and if you run squirrels, you are probably too busy back stabbing dires and annis to go after small game. so the light is the last mech you want fighting other lights. i say thats kind of a medium job. lights are a direct counter to assault mechs and are best utilized as such. if it can eliminate four times its tonnage then its probibly better off doing that than scouting or defending stuff, also a static defence position for lights is practically suicide. they need to keep moving.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 May 2018 - 04:40 AM.

[Old dirty B]

LordNothing, on 30 May 2018 - 04:39 AM, said:

... a static defence position for lights is practically suicide. they need to keep moving.

this

[Haipyng]

For most people playing it's all about the damage done and actual roles used for the benefit of the team are neither well rewarded or appreciated. Lights and their roles were mostly intended to be harassers, scouts, and counter measures. They have a nervous life and were meant to attack and retreat and always be in the move. Mediums would take on the support and defense role. A quick medium with Streaks or SRMS provides immense incentive for lights to move along.

Of course everything is played as skirmish now and damage/ k/d ratio is the only measure of your worth.

[R Valentine]

There's only 1 light I ever worry about, because the Piranha can core out your back and take your weapons in half a second flat before you can respond. Anything else might be annoying, but usually not enough of a threat on its own to make me respond outright. I just have to keep my backside moving. In group play I'd definitely say you need anti-light mechs, whether they're light mechs or not because Piranhas are pretty common there. That being said, what light can take the Piranha in a duel anyways? Those things put out amazing DPS.

[Dragonporn]

This is complicated topic and really needs adjustment of pilot to particular situation and knowledge of it. Technically pretty much every Light can serve as defense of Assaults from other Lights, but skirmisher Lights such as Piranha, Myst Lynx, Osiris, Locust, etc aren't well suited to kill other Lights quick enough, but you can engage them and keep them off Assaults butts for long enough for fatties to get into position and help you deal with Light(s) you're chasing off.

There are other type of Lights, such as Kit Fox, Cougar, Adder, etc who aren't suited to be a strike force on their own, and played almost exclusively as team support and must ALWAYS stick by Assaults or Heavies (with AMS/ECM plus fire support), but get out in a front line fight only when enemy team is dwindled or took some damage, not to eat 12 man alphas. Other than that, just use their superior fire power on Lights trying to jump big guys.

However, the ones who are destined to be real protection to Heavies and Assaults are pretty much 90% of Mediums. They all are born Light killers, they can't and shouldn't push in front of bigger mechs and engage only when fighting is in full swing, before that they are perfect to stand by and protect fatties from any Light attacks.

Real role of skirmisher Lights is to get in pack (if possible) and hunt down fat mechs lagging behind, or pretty much anyone breaking off from their team, even smaller enemy Light packs. If there's no possibility to form a pack (possible with other hunter type of fast Mediums too), they must stand by the big guys side and look for opportunity to start flanking enemy and be very annoying nuisance for their whole team.

Anyone who tells you to guard fatties while you're in a skirmisher Light and there's clear opportunity for good hunt, has no idea what he is talking about, and again, the real escort mechs for Assaults are Mediums, always were, and always will be. Light are the only to par take this role, when Mediums are unavailable, for reasons unknown...

[Nightbird]

I never defend assaults, that's what heavies are for and they already run together.

[JC Daxion]

No.. Light hunters are the Anti-light..(that can be light, medium and select heavies for the most part) Or an assault that can actually AIM!!!

Though as much as people complain about lights in game, so few actually play the roll.

Edited by JC Daxion, 30 May 2018 - 06:09 AM.

[ocular tb]

Short answer-NO, they shouldn't ALL be anti-light. I think it's hard to put lights into a singular "role" because they can do a lot of different things. To me, lights are the "do-whatever-needs-done" mech so that can mean scouting, backstabbing assaults, spotting for LRMs, chasing away enemy lights, capping, defending base, etc... sometimes all in the same match. It all depends on the situation.

Being an effective light to me means being aware of the situation and adapting and responding as needed to keep your team from losing, whether that be from enemy lights backstabbing your assaults and heavies or capping base or whatever. If you look at it that way, lights have the most responsibilities in the game- and that makes it fun as judgement calls come into play more often than if you were playing a slow assault.

Edited by ocular tb, 30 May 2018 - 06:26 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

No, actually that is sound advice for over 97% of all light pilots I see in QP. Defending your assaults or those that fall a bit behind or are close but due to obstacles not in los of team is invaluable. If you dont defend your team e.g. vs other lights or you are significantly distracting and disrupting at least one or hopefully more assaults and heavies in team red, and you are not capping, chances are high you are pretty useless in that match.

I see 1+ light(s) instadying after 30 - 60 seconds in very early phase in basically every single match. No other class can be as disruptive to entire nascar formations as lights. They are a poweful tool. Loosing one or having ome running around aimlessly, neither defending nor disrupting...

Is huge.

Have just one single light that actually really covers the big guys backsides....well, youd be immediately among a super stark minority.

Defending your team is a strong strategy. Instead of foolishly 'scouting' e.g. minings left side to instadie. I rarely ever see even a single effective light pilot.

In fact, as powerdul and game winning just one light can be, I maybe see one effective ligjt every 20 - 30 matches. If ppl tell you 'defend assaults' then all things considered that is the single best advice they could give you.

[PurplePuke]

Why can't assaults protect each other from enemy lights?

That's what I do when I drive assaults. Of course, that means you have to kind of stick together.

[LowSubmarino]

For a variety of reasons.

Imagine your direwolf having to slowly turn to face a locust right up its bottom. Just take a wild guess how much dmg that whale could have dished out at the frontline.

That too is more than huge.

Its much more effective to give that assault the room and freedom to engage the scary big targets in team red.

That alone is a game winning move.

And you made it possible.

[mistlynx4life]

You have to adapt to what you see and as the fastest 'mechs on the battlefield, you're going to see things first. Harassing and flanking are often uber-helpful but if your Charlie Lance starts crying for help, you need to go screen. It's less that Lights are the perfect anti-Light and more that Lights are the fastest (typically) 'mechs able to respond to a problem. In a Skirmish, I usually stay with Charlie Lance until we're all formed up and have a plan and then I go harass because I'm not as fast as other 'mechs that might conceivably get a good position on my Charlies. Of course, some Lights simply aren't a threat to other Lights, so it's situational on that level too.

[Weeny Machine]

What seems to be more and more common is that assaults slack at the start and waddle then on to get to the rest of the team. Then they get delayed by enemy lights and then swallowed by the enemy team. I see zero reason to take shots with my lights in order to save such a guy...simply because it won't work and you get killed as well

[Besh]

Asym, on 30 May 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

MWO lost control of "roles" years ago. The arms race created the "mini-assaults" to appease the FPS pilots and to expand sales.

OK, here we are and the relationships centuries of warfare created (cavalry scouting well ahead of the FLOT; fighters protect bombers; destroyers screen surface warfare task forces, etc....) have been ignored in favor of "everybody" is an assault: look at my scores ! With kills and damage as the gauge to becoming "GuD", roles went out the window. No roles, no combined arms, no combined arms and you get "linear" warfare theory where combat mass rules the day; not individual initiative, skill or courage was necessary... You are reaping what you've sown.....it's what the players demanded.....

This thread is a symptom of the disease meritocracies create: that everything is based on where you stand on the leader board as an individual.... First Person Shooter isn't a team because "first" is "I accomplished" not "we" accomplished....

So, if the mini-assaults start eating you lunch in the rear, "I am not responsible for you" because there is no "we" in MWO anymore nor is the strategic intent of this game "we".........It's called Solaris and that is an arcade FPS and lights can fight assaults and everybody should be happy enough to buy a mech pack..... Or, is that really what everybody wanted??

As much as you like to repeat the Mantra of "It is not a Teamgame" and "there are no Roles"....it is proper BS .

Not every Player's motivation to play MW:O is simply reward'/stats driven...there ARE Players who truly enjoy good Teamplay, know how to advocate and foster it, and even can make it work in "random" Matches .

If you ever had the pleasure to be part of a perfectly executed Hammer and Anvil in a QP Match, exececuted by a "random" 12 man Team, driven by people's awarness, knowledge of what needs to be done when and capability of doing it , as well as proper communication - which in said circumstances tends to be minimal - you know what I am talking about . THIS is what MW:O is all about, even in QP . Strangely enough, to be able to pull that off requires enough people on a Team to be working together as a Team...and it happens, in MW:O .

The fact that many, many people havce NO CLUE how to use the Game we are given to its full potential, ONLY play for their personal rewards and stats, and do not for one minute consider how to best work for their Team's success is NONE of PGI'S fault . That is entirely Player driven, and - sadly enough - a sign of the times and Zeitgeist imho.

Edited by Besh, 30 May 2018 - 08:11 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

Bush Hopper, on 30 May 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

What seems to be more and more common is that assaults slack at the start and waddle then on to get to the rest of the team. Then they get delayed by enemy lights and then swallowed by the enemy team. I see zero reason to take shots with my lights in order to save such a guy...simply because it won't work and you get killed as well

Depends.

If I can I try to dish out as much dmg as possible while he is engaged.

If he is hilariously out of position and many mechs are approaching I leave him to die.

[Prototelis]

I only go back to help slow fatties when they get left behind.

I'm probably not going to screen lights for you. I'm busy tying up enemy fatties and creating a numbers advantage.

[LowSubmarino]

When im in fast mechs, lights or fast mediums, I try to get to a position where I can observe early movement of team reads scouts, lights and fast skrimishers.

If I see some of them take very direct routes that will lead them right at the back of our nascar train, then I set up an ambush. Wait for them and then pounce. If I dont see such movements or I cant see it then I usually run directly to the backend of team red and try to disrupt the biggest targets I can find.