83 replies to this topic

[Asym]

JadeLight, on 30 May 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

Here's the issue I have with the statement. It feels like you are arguing that the roles of the past should be stuck to no matter what the results are. A light that solo kills 2 enemy assaults is much more valuable to the team then just defending against other lights. You are dismantling the enemies ability to effectively engage and creating confusion.

You take that theory too far. There are no absolutes. Scouts are effective and efficient killers. They have to be to survive. Anti-light ops are selfless endeavors that sometimes just doesn't pay the bills and yet, can be decisive... Indirect fire types get abused all of the time on this forum and yet, if done well, can be a nightmare to the enemy....

Roles define capabilities and those capabilities are unique in many cases. Stealth, ECM, TAG, NARC's all infer a specific use and, in many cases, a specific type of mech... Again, not an absolute....

Roles allow people to specialize if the want. They have different expectations and their rewards, if PGI would make those types of rewards meaningful, would be capping, capturing, collecting, etc.... Now, it's all damage. How many times have you played a domination match and no one goes to the circle? What is the expectation? Light or fast mediums..... Why aren't those mech weight classes going there as fast as they can??? Because there is no real value in doing so..... See the point?

Variation is the key to fun and specialization requires rewards that support it.. Otherwise, everyone is out there for kills and damage and there are NO expectations anymore because there are no roles.... i.e. I use a MDD as an anti-light platform ! It's fast, agile, and the number if missiles and lasers is extreme......someone the other day was giving me grief following the last assault on Grim.........I was, as they say where I live, 'riding drag' - a ranching term.... the grief stopped when a Commando decided to eat the back armor of a SNV-A and received 4 missile battery's of Streaks and multiple lasers and just didn't survive that evolution of training....and, i have two LRM-10's as well to follow back stabbing lights and a tag as well...... That is a role.....I give up a lot of damage to protect our assaults.....

Hope this helps.... Good hunting and have fun!

Edited by Asym, 30 May 2018 - 12:52 PM.

[JadeLight]

Asym, on 30 May 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

You take that theory too far. There are no absolutes. Scouts are effective and efficient killers. They have to be to survive. Anti-light ops are selfless endeavors that sometimes just doesn't pay the bills and yet, can be decisive... Indirect fire types get abused all of the time on this forum and yet, if done well, can be a nightmare to the enemy....

Roles define capabilities and those capabilities are unique in many cases. Stealth, ECM, TAG, NARC's all infer a specific use and, in many cases, a specific type of mech... Again, not an absolute....

Roles allow people to specialize if the want. They have different expectations and their rewards, if PGI would make those types of rewards meaningful, would be capping, capturing, collecting, etc.... Now, it's all damage. How many times have you played a domination match and no one goes to the circle? What is the expectation? Light or fast mediums..... Why aren't those mech weight classes going there as fast as they can??? Because there is no real value in doing so..... See the point?

Variation is the key to fun and specialization requires rewards that support it.. Otherwise, everyone is out there for kills and damage and there are NO expectations anymore because there are no roles.... i.e. I use a MDD as an anti-light platform ! It's fast, agile, and the number if missiles and lasers is extreme......someone the other day was giving me grief following the last assault on Grim.........I was, as they say where I live, 'riding drag' - a ranching term.... the grief stopped when a Commando decided to eat the back armor of a SNV-A and received 4 missile battery's of Streaks and multiple lasers and just didn't survive that evolution of training....and, i have two LRM-10's as well to follow back stabbing lights and a tag as well...... That is a role.....I give up a lot of damage to protect our assaults.....

Hope this helps.... Good hunting and have fun!

Your explanation feels more more reasonable then the initial statements. In a fast mech, i will dive on the circle but stay hidden while the mainforce is able to set up firing lines. if they leave me out to dry, I will leave them out to dry but I always make the effort to start the game off and it bites me in the butt enough to make me rage like a toddler unfortunately. My issue is with people who say that everyone needs to go to the circle on maps with little cover and then they complain when they get wiped. You have to address maps like Frozen City Dom a little differently. People suicide on an OBJ and then complaining that they aren't being supported is a joke and hurt the team despite their good intentions.

[ANOM O MECH]

Most of the mechs I hunt lights in are mediums.

At no time am I playing to look for a straight up fair fight. If you are not looking for where you have the advantage you are either really good and you are the advantage (ie not me), or you are a heavily team oriented guy (that's me) who is looking to work an advantage with another team mate.

So in a light I tend to not run off and stay by my team until I get more information and see an opening. Certainly though since the cspls nerf I am not trying to engage other lights in my own light. Too much like a fair fight I might lose.

The last time I ventured into quick play with any seriousness I played 72 games in an Osiris 4D and had a 1.84wlr, 2.39kdr, survive rate of 54%, and average match score of 272. If someone was to tell me I was doing it wrong my response would likely be that what I was doing was working for me.

[razenWing]

4 pages in, so I may be too late to contribute...

This game is paper scissor rock. Rock can smash against rock, and hopefully, the stronger rock will break the weaker rock, but it's a lot more efficient to just beat it with paper.

LIGHT DO NOT HUNT LIGHT. That's a god damn waste of your time and resource. Now, don't get me wrong, if a dumb Panther with duel ppc came crashing the party, you go get your light mech off the floor and go kill the crap out of that thing.

But for the most part, it's inefficient to fight light with another light because it's inefficient. And it's inefficient because it's a fair fight.

Mediums kill lights. They are slightly slower bigger lights with a lot more weapons and armors. That's NOT a fair fight, and it's a fight people should choose.

With that said, there are exceptions, so no rules are absolute. But I totally agree with the OP that light is somehow only anti-light is just about the most stagnant strategy one can employ.

[Old dirty B]

razenWing, on 30 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

... LIGHT DO NOT HUNT LIGHT. That's a god damn waste of your time ...

While i agree fighting another light is not that efficient (its easier and often safer to take out slower opponents) its far from a waste of my time.

A dogfight with a capable light pilot is the most thrilling and exciting this game has to offer. Sadly, coming across a good light pilot without other enemies and friendlies around seldom happens so i will probably grab any chance to make that happen.

For me, a good light duel is not a waste of my time, its time best spend in mwo.

Alright, perhaps selfish - but Solaris isnt offering anything in this regard either (you rarely come across anothter light) so sometimes you have to make do with QP.

Edited by Old dirty B, 30 May 2018 - 11:26 PM.

[BWS2K]

Old dirty B, on 30 May 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

For me, a good light duel is not a waste of my time, its time best spend in mwo.

I mean, all the tactics in the world go right out the window when I see an opportunity for a Lynx duel. I hear ya, lol!

[Surn]

In truth, most people in qp that try to order you around should be ignored.

The skill in qp is knowing your own skills and applying them to the best of your ability in the situation.

Then you know when to listen and when to ignore.

I can't tell you how many times, in my anni on grim plexus I went left then cut to the battle before anyone else and was called a noob for taking the best path.

Edited by Surn, 30 May 2018 - 11:49 PM.

[Necroledo]

Personal opinion, but as a mainly assault pilot I don't really think the light mechs in my team should always stay next to me just to protect me from other lights. I should have some situational awareness and make sure I don't stray too far from the group, especially considering I'm slow to reposition. Plus, they have many other useful roles to do, such as scouting, harassing and capturing.

That said, I do appreciate that if any friendly light mechs are nearby and they see me being helplessly circled by an enemy light mech, they will come help me. I'd appreciate them to have situational awareness, too, especially since their mobility allows them to quickly go from one side of the group to the other to help reinforce a side that is being pushed of harassed.

Edited by Necroledo, 31 May 2018 - 12:41 AM.

[razenWing]

Old dirty B, on 30 May 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

While i agree fighting another light is not that efficient (its easier and often safer to take out slower opponents) its far from a waste of my time.

A dogfight with a capable light pilot is the most thrilling and exciting this game has to offer. Sadly, coming across a good light pilot without other enemies and friendlies around seldom happens so i will probably grab any chance to make that happen.

For me, a good light duel is not a waste of my time, its time best spend in mwo.

Alright, perhaps selfish - but Solaris isnt offering anything in this regard either (you rarely come across anothter light) so sometimes you have to make do with QP.

o I agree, I love a good duel no matter what. When it comes down to it, a light duel is one of the most skill relevant duel in all of MWO. But I am merely mentioning that if a light's sole purpose is to hunt other lights, that's a huge waste of tactical resources. Obviously, not every rule is set in stone. There are dedicated light v light builds. But the general rule is to always fight UNFAIR. And if a light duel devolves into a light v light fight, that's fighting fair, and tactically unwise.

But no, I absolutely agree with you. I always enjoy trying to kick it with another light. I might not be the best at it, but it's helluva fun.

[BWS2K]

I think it's important, as a Light, to be willing to tangle with another Light in the process of chasing them off or distracting them or whatever... but I honestly only actively shy away from a couple other builds I ever see. I 100% agree that Lights brawling with other Lights - at least in the early game - is usually a waste of resources, though I never thought about it in those terms. They're about doing ten things at once and not prolonged engagement. That said, I do pay attention to how many Lights are on my side. If I'm the only one and I see my counterpart, I may go out of my way to leg them or bang them up a bit because they're likely the only other Light the Reds have and it might give us an edge if it's out of commission.

You just have to be super aware of what's going on and adjust to the flow of battle.

[Prototelis]

Nah.

You never engage in fair fights, that's how you win.

You want light screening/minions cry to your mediums, they're way more suited to it.

[Jman5]

When it comes to rescuing fatties from lights, I think it just depends. If you don't go back to help them, what are you going to do instead? If the answer is sit around scratching your butt waiting for the rest of the team to group up, then you should go back and try to rescue your teammate. If the answer is engage and destroy one of the enemies, then you should do that.

9 times out of 10 an assault player who lets himself get isolated and killed early in the match is not a very good player. It's not worth dying or seriously wounding your mech to rescue a player who probably wont add much value to your team even under ideal conditions. However being down 1 player early in the match is a detriment even if he wasn't very good. Simply being there a little longer spreading the damage can help some.

It's important to reiterate that players who self-isolate themselves from the team are the ones to blame. Despite what these players scream, it's not the fault of the team for not acting like a human-shield for them while they wander around the map aimlessly.

So basically, I would say if you're not doing a whole lot and you can peel an enemy off your dummy teammate without taking much damage yourself, then do it. If you can't or there are opportunities to take down enemy mechs, then leave the straggler behind.

[ThreeStooges]

I do whatever I want in a light. Generally tho i'll try and cap or get cells or do whatever the objective is at the start of a match. I've played the game for years so I can tell by watching radar what the rest of the team is going to do. i will never baby sit or rear guard the ***-aults unless I know one to be better than average having played with it before or if it specifically asks for an escort nicely. One bellowing out:protect me lights is mocked and left in my dust.

My light is busy doing other things than sitting fatties such as trying to get rad/jam,pop uavs for missiles,going to other caps, fighting other enemy lights, er med laser sniping enemy lrm boats to draw fire and/or enemy lights etc.

While a lot of my lights are built to combat 1 vs 1 other lights as that is my most frequent type of encounter in qp I do use other in scout/sniper areas. I also largely ignore the voip 'commander wanabes.' I had some jack asz in incursion on hpg cuss me out for getting jam instead of radar so I told him to f off and get it himself. Then I went to the enemy base and proceeded to blow up two of the four bases while the rest of the sad sack of a team did what voip wanabe screamed going center to get murdered. While I was attacking the enemy base I also noticed they had both rad and jam so I know their fast movers were getting cells. The so called team loss with a 2-12 score and me with two of the enemy base destroyed to my credit.

[Mystere]

JadeLight, on 30 May 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Is this due to salty assaults who are caught out of position complaining ...

Yes.

[yrrot]

"Out of position" vs "left in dust by team". Clocking in at max 48 KPH, it's pretty easy to get left behind even taking the fastest route when you are the only slow assault on the team. Granted, those salty about it are probably the ones that weren't asking for help before they died anyway.

But either way, it doesn't mean it's up to the lights to do anything about it. There are plenty of mediums and heavies that are just as much of a deterrent to lights. And they are slower and won't have to hold up progress as much to make sure the assaults make it to the front intact. Several mediums are just better at dealing with lights anyway. They may not be able to keep up in a race, but they have enough speed and maneuverability to get their firepower where it needs to be.

[TWIAFU]

JadeLight, on 30 May 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

I have delved deeply into Light mechs this last month and have been interested in the for a while. One thing I never understand is that no matter what light mech I choose, I am told I should be staying with the fatties and defending them from enemy lights.

Also, I believe that generally speaking, mediums are the best defense vs enemy lights.

If you are diving deeper into Lights like that, you should be moving up into group/unit play.

This will help expand your skillset and utilize your "role" and teamwork more efficiently.

[Destoroyah]

As for the original question I believe it's more the mediums job to preform anti light duties. They generally got the speed and firepower to discourage most lights sticking around. Granted some mediums aren't built for anti-light and are best used to do their own thing. Lights are best used in my opinion to harass the enemy by either picking off stragglers or just annoying the enemy hopefully causing some to break off or help keep the enemy from having comfortable positions to hunker down at.


The thing that annoys me the most is when In the early game I'm moving to get a flank or scouting position on the enemy and the whole team decides to follow me and end up getting themselves in a bad position and usually easily wiped. I know the follow the leader instinct is strong, but come on use some common sense and DON'T FOLLOW THE LIGHTS.

Edited by Destoroyah, 31 May 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Your job as a light is to go fkshitup, let a med do the job of fending. If your fatties need you to stay alive they arent going to be alive long anyways. Pop uav, drop arty, make half the team turn on you. The other team should remember your name, some should switch to streaks med just for you. Then all you need is a team who learned where the gas pedal is and use it when the other team is busy with that fkin ******* behind their line.

[Ghogiel]

It's because bads in fatties think that lights are OP, have no idea how to play them, and friendly ones should be their personal ECM ***** or anti light deterent

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

yrrot, on 31 May 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

"Out of position" vs "left in dust by team". Clocking in at max 48 KPH, it's pretty easy to get left behind even taking the fastest route when you are the only slow assault on the team. Granted, those salty about it are probably the ones that weren't asking for help before they died anyway.

But either way, it doesn't mean it's up to the lights to do anything about it. There are plenty of mediums and heavies that are just as much of a deterrent to lights. And they are slower and won't have to hold up progress as much to make sure the assaults make it to the front intact. Several mediums are just better at dealing with lights anyway. They may not be able to keep up in a race, but they have enough speed and maneuverability to get their firepower where it needs to be.

This, especially on certain maps where the team just circles around to the right at full speed and you can't catch up in time (Polar non-Domination and other big maps are the biggest offenders, but heaven help you if Charlie lance spawns in the back left corner on Mining). If you have an Assault that's just wandering off to die then so be it, but if they're trying to catch up try not to leave them to die.

That being said Lights usually aren't the best option for babysitting... unless they're the only option (that can make it in time).