15 replies to this topic

[kilgor]

Has anyone else noticed that the armor on the arms of the JagerMech are below that of the standard, unmodified value to the point of being equivalent to a 50 ton 'Mech? A 'Mech whose primary weapons are in its arms have a max of 34 armor, after the +2 buff. I believe 40 would be the standard, unmodified value, right?

Edited by kilgor, 02 June 2018 - 09:09 PM.

[Lykaon]

Working as intended.

Previous patch altered the armor values on some mechs migrating arm armor to side torso armor.

I believe the mechs were...

Jagermech
Jenner
Stalker

So check the Jager's side torso armor values. That is where your missing arm armor went.

[kilgor]

It looks like there is 10 more armor on the side torso, but that's still not the best thing to do to a 'Mech that has most of its weapons in the arms. I was wondering why my arms were getting destroyed so quickly. The extra torso armor doesn't help much when you don't have weapons to fight back with.

It's more understandable for the change on the Jenner and Stalker since their arms are so short they need the torso coverage, but Jager arms are big enough to be hit and destroyed easily.

Edited by kilgor, 02 June 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

They took the base armor from the arms and moved it into the sides and center.

Yes, it absolutely was a bone-headed decision. We know. Whether or not they know is open for debate.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'm getting to my 65 tonners soon, as I've been slowly going through my collection of mechs.

When I first read this, I thought neato toledo, mechs that get easily cored in ST/CT get a bit more life, and I soon saw the new IS Light engine and felt that I'd need to test this myself at some point.

Nevertheless, I've held back due to dropping in QT, or whatever acronym, and seeing how the drop rates still tend to favor lights and wanted to run many of those that I have (DUE to how high Heavies tend to be above 50% and thus longer drop times if choosing a Heavy Mech).

The recent MM tweak allowances has me closer to getting to my Heavies, as that's been one class I've spent the least amount of time, as I get back into big stompy mechs with in MWO.

[Y E O N N E]

Nothing Whatsoever, on 02 June 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

When I first read this, I thought neato toledo, mechs that get easily cored in ST/CT get a bit more life, and I soon saw the new IS Light engine and felt that I'd need to test this myself at some point.

It doesn't help. Why? Because you will torso-twist less to protect the fragile arm from fire, meaning more goes into the side torso, enough that it offsets what PGI gave it.

PGI doesn't seem to understand that getting sticked is really not much better than getting outright killed.

[Lykaon]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 June 2018 - 12:39 AM, said:

It doesn't help. Why? Because you will torso-twist less to protect the fragile arm from fire, meaning more goes into the side torso, enough that it offsets what PGI gave it.

PGI doesn't seem to understand that getting sticked is really not much better than getting outright killed.

Guess they figured we would build our Jagers like our warhammers and migrate all the weapons to the torsos and ignore the arm hardpoints?

Edited by Lykaon, 03 June 2018 - 05:08 AM.

[Black Fish]

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of their arms falling off... Sure PGI could just give those 'mechs torso armor quirks, and it was an odd decision, but all in all these are straight up buffs - those arms are really hard to hit and if your enemy knows any better he would aim for the torso, especially on glass canon jagers that favor XL engines.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Shhhh, keep it quiet. People are generally still shooting torsos on my ballistic Jaegers.

If they wise up we'll be neutered quickly.

[Y E O N N E]

Lykaon, on 03 June 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Guess they figured we would build our Jagers like our warhammers and migrate all the weapons to the torsos and ignore the arm hardpoints?

That would be an odd thing for them to believe when most Jagermechs only have two torso energy hardpoints.

Black Fish, on 03 June 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of their arms falling off... Sure PGI could just give those 'mechs torso armor quirks, and it was an odd decision, but all in all these are straight up buffs - those arms are really hard to hit and if your enemy knows any better he would aim for the torso, especially on glass canon jagers that favor XL engines.

No it's not. You could always get around the enemy aiming for the side by really twisting. If you are playing that Jager to its strength and firing over a ridge with minimal exposure, that means all they really can hit at that point is the arm. With the reduced armor, boom, there go your weapons.

If they gave a hoot they would have just increased the torso armor and been done with it.

[Revis Volek]

Black Fish, on 03 June 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of their arms falling off... Sure PGI could just give those 'mechs torso armor quirks, and it was an odd decision, but all in all these are straight up buffs - those arms are really hard to hit and if your enemy knows any better he would aim for the torso, especially on glass canon jagers that favor XL engines.

Robbing peter to pay paul (lol) is not a buff not a nerf. Its a side step in the wrong direction a nerf to the arms to buff the ST only in name. It overall subtracts from the mech and any pilot worth their T1 badge knows that a mech with no weapons is not a threat. So why bother doing more dmg then i need to to neutralize the issue. I can come back and kill it later as it runs around trying to complete objectives or hide.


A buff would be adding a bit of armor and maybe some twist speed to the mech to help it shed dmg to location the pilot chooses. a nerf would be just getting rid of something it previously had. But in a game where DOING DMG and KILLING THINGS is the NAME OF THE GAME as it an arena deathmatch and if you cannot deal out dmg you just take it.


Running around alive with no weapons defeats the entire purpose of this game. PGI trolls themselves and us in turn when they do things like this

[JC Daxion]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 June 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

They took the base armor from the arms and moved it into the sides and center.

Yes, it absolutely was a bone-headed decision. We know. Whether or not they know is open for debate.

But aren't all the mechs they did this to XL engine mechs? Jag, Jenner, Cicada.. (i forget what else) But being alive IMO is better than loosing an arm.

If you shield you should at least have one arm and some torso weapons.. only a couple of the variants have mainly arm only weapons and they could easily take a quirk update if needed.

Edited by JC Daxion, 03 June 2018 - 08:30 AM.

[Revis Volek]

JC Daxion, on 03 June 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

But aren't all the mechs they did this to XL engine mechs? Jag, Jenner, Cicada.. (i forget what else) But being alive IMO is better than loosing an arm.

I dont have many XL mechs other then lights these days and even some of those use LFE's.


There are better mechs to make dual goose builds out of no as well that dont require the Glass ST XL if you ask me. But this is par for the course PGI is way behind the meta.

Edited by Revis Volek, 03 June 2018 - 08:29 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

JC Daxion, on 03 June 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

But aren't all the mechs they did this to XL engine mechs? Jag, Jenner, Cicada.. (i forget what else) But being alive IMO is better than loosing an arm.

No. Only the Cicada and Jenner really need an XLs, and at that you can make the MedLas boats work on a Light if you are really uncomfortable with those XLs. The Jager works just fine on a Light engine and does not require an XL for anything it's good at anymore.

Quote

If you shield you should at least have one arm and some torso weapons.. only a couple of the variants have mainly arm only weapons and they could easily take a quirk update if needed.

One arm is not enough. A Jagermech is barely there with all of its weapons intact, losing an arm is terribly crippling unless you are playing a Firebrand...and it's not like I need even less of a reason to use LGauss on that.

[JC Daxion]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

The Jager works just fine on a Light engine and does not require an XL for anything it's good at anymore.

I don't play Jager's much, but all mine still use the XL and even then i run a 265, i run um pretty weapon heavy but i havent run them since the change. I don't have a jenner either so no clue on that. I think the jenner could use an armor buff anyway, so perhaps just add a bit more arm armor now anyway.

I think one of the cicadas could probably use a slight arm buff as well, the A is it?

So i guess the only mech i do play is the cicada and the ones i use all have torso weapons.. so maybe that is coloring my opinion

[Y E O N N E]

JC Daxion, on 03 June 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

I don't play Jager's much, but all mine still use the XL and even then i run a 265, i run um pretty weapon heavy but i havent run them since the change. I don't have a jenner either so no clue on that. I think the jenner could use an armor buff anyway, so perhaps just add a bit more arm armor now anyway.

I mean, that's the thing. All of the 'Mechs that got this change really just needed to have some added on. The Jenner is a walking torso, but now Streaks will halve it in one shot like it were a Locust.

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I think one of the cicadas could probably use a slight arm buff as well, the A is it?

The B. The A is the one with six all-torso weapons. The B has four out of five in the arms.

Quote

So i guess the only mech i do play is the cicada and the ones i use all have torso weapons.. so maybe that is coloring my opinion

The JM6-DD, typically the heaviest-running one with six ballistic mounts, can fit 3x UAC/2, 3x LMG, and 2x ERML with plenty of ammo all on an LFE 280. You can swap those three UAC/2 to a pair of UAC/5 and an extra LMG if you want, and you can drop engine to an LFE 265 from there to trade the lasers and UAC/5 for a pair of UAC/10. And that's about as heavy as any Jager really gets or needs to get.

I do the 2x UAC/10 build right now, but favor the 3x UAC/2 on the DD. My Firebrand is a pair of LGauss and six ERML on an LFE 265 and it holds its own against the Warhammers and Hellbringers. I don't really take the S or the A out, there isn't much point when the S doesn't really have quirks enough to make it a better choice than a Black Widow for anything and the A gets out-gunned by the Roughneck's superior hardpoint placement.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 03 June 2018 - 09:46 AM.