347 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 29 June 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

The GH for 3 gauss is only 1.5 heat. If shooting 3ppcs has no GH, then shotting 2gauss 1ppc will use the GH from gauss, 1.5 heat. This won't deter anyone as it's heat neutral with 10 dhs.

Ghost heat always uses the smallest group size and strongest heat penalty available in the pool of weapons being fired.

So, if you fire 3x PPCs with Gauss, your smallest group size is 2 and, since PPCs have the hottest penalty potential, you are going to trigger a ghost heat penalty equivalent to what you would get firing two PPCs over the limit.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 29 June 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Regardless, 2 Gauss 1 PPC is actually quite manageable. If poke and fade was as prevalent as some people like to say, you would still see Night Gyrs poptarting with 2 Gauss 1 PPC.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 June 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Hal Greaves]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 June 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Regardless, 2 Gauss 1 PPC is actually quite manageable. If poke and fade was as prevalent as some people like to say, you would still see Night Gyrs poptarting with 2 Gauss 1 PPC.

It isn't prevalent because it takes forever to cool off if you want to have any meaningful amount of ammo with that. The heat that combo generates when alpha'd is beyond stupid, highly unreasonable and unusable in any circumstance, unless you are trading on Polar and plan on the battle taking longer than 20 minutes.

Edited by Hal Greaves, 29 June 2018 - 10:01 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Hal Greaves, on 29 June 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

It isn't prevalent because it takes forever to cool off if you want to have any meaningful amount of ammo with that. The heat that combo generates when alpha'd is beyond stupid, highly unreasonable and unusable in any circumstance, unless you are trading on Polar and plan on the battle taking longer than 20 minutes.

It really isn't. You can stack something like 16 DHS on a Night Gyr with enough ammo, which lets you alpha twice in a row, and then if you just have to keep shooting, dual gauss and ER PPC separately is insanely cool. I have used it, and I did not really feel heat limited in the "trade" phase of the match. Simply repositioning from a jump and getting ready for the next jump or poke provided ample time for cooling.

The problem is that the "poke and fade" phase of matches is really short, and once pushing starts you are in an assault-like agility 75 tonner with not very much armor and bombs in its arms, and your DPS isn't that great.

[Y E O N N E]

Thanatos has the same problem as the Night Gyr with its agility, and can't even reasonably mount the PPC without going for that explosive XL.

[MischiefSC]

Nightbird, on 29 June 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

3xPPC also brings back 2 Gauss +PPC, I don't mind it but PGI does.

You can have 3ppc okay but 1 gauss and 2ppc not okay.

Honestly I'm fine either way.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 June 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

Dragon Slayer was dominant long after Gauss chargeup so that doesn't contradict me. It got replaced LONG before the skill tree. In fact, long before the Clans dropped, the Gauss-ERPPC-PPC Dragon Slayer was on par with the AC5-PPC Dragon Slayer... the latter was just better for a slightly shorter range. And... it was basically downhill from there for IS Gauss once the Clans dropped.

IS Gauss was pretty much abandoned once Resistance Pack 2 dropped. UAC5s were good enough to take once the Mauler could bring 4 of them, and AC5s were good enough to take once the Mauler could bring 5.

Just went back and read over forum posts from 2014.

Gauss was still a thing but had gotten charge-up - because the poptarts at the time had the room and the tonnage they switched to AC5s for better brawling firepower.

This all got smoked when Clans showed up a bit later and CGauss+CERPPCs was a thing - just not as noticeable because CLasers were so stupid strong and CUAC10s were even stupider-stronger. Then when the meta shook out it was CGauss+peeps. Weapon changes around skilltree time is what dialed back the gauss meta but, to be fair, it was cgauss that was used -

however that's always been more a factor of cgaussvomit (with peeps or lasers) always being flat out superior to IS gaussvomit of any sort. There really wasn't any IS mech meta outside of a few brief over-quirked mechs up until not long before the KDK was released and because of the flat out inferiority of IS lasers/ppcs other than ISERLLs and for a time IS LPLs and the lack of anything able to mount an effective gaussvomit comparable to the Clan one it was never a thing.

However the lack of IS gauss being viable is more a matter of what it was competing against, chassis available and what mechs were quirked enough to be competitive for the IS. Stack that with having to put an explosive gauss in a ST with ISXL and you get no real viable IS Gaussvomit.

That's more a matter of everything BUT the IS Gauss weapon performance vs IS Ballistics. Not that IS Gauss doesn't need buffs (what if it didn't explode? Just had lower health? I'd be fine with GH limit on IS Gauss+PPCs going to 3 too) but you want to buff the gauss in its specific niche, not put it back in competition with AC10s/5s.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 29 June 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

3xPPC also brings back 2 Gauss +PPC, I don't mind it but PGI does.

Again, it doesn't have to. We have 3 LPPCs that you can fire while still linked to 2 PPCs. That means when you have 1 PPC, you can only fire another 1 LPPC.