34 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

So guys, tell me this..

How many times you just wanna drop a few quick games with your friend or your significant other, you crate a group of two, and hit the launch button, and end up in a match with many other similarly sized and entirely uncoordinated groups on your side, and a big 8+ premade on the enemy team, resulting in a less then 5 minute 0:12 stomp?

I know it's called "group que", but I believe it's not fair for groups of 2, or perhapse 3 to be matched against large premades? It is almost always a one-sided stomp for the premade, and after 2-3 drops like that, I just wanna break my keyboard and rage quit..

SO..

What I propose is this:

Have groups of 2 drop into the SOLO Que.. not into GROUP que..

That way, it would be alot more fun to play with uncoordinated team against an uncoordinated team.. no unfair skill advantage, no Linbacker/Assassin rushes, no frustration when you have 30 minutes or an hour of play time and you just want to spend it with somebody important to you with out too much hassle.

And teams of 2 don't have enough sway to pull the game this way or that.. and even if they go off and do their own thing, it's only two people.. not 4.. not 6..

Would you be up for this?

Edited by Vellron2005, 11 June 2018 - 12:34 AM.

[El Bandito]

Technically two top level players can snowball one side very easily--especially when combined with sync dropping. However, I do have some sympathy towards duos in general. Therefore I would suggest that duos will only be allowed to be in SQ if these conditions apply:

1. There must be another duo on the other team.

2. There must be no more than one duo per team.


Of course, duos will still be allowed in GQ.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 June 2018 - 12:41 AM.

[Bohxim]

There is also advantage of the smaller groups having higher tonnage. So at least there's some leeway..

And as bandito has mentioned a top-tiered 2 man can easily sway the game anyways. Besides, not all 8-mans are as coordinated and comp level. Have a 8-man from my team and it's basically Lols and giggles on both sides heh

[Vellron2005]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Technically two top level players can snowball one side very easily--especially when combined with sync dropping. However, I do have some sympathy towards duos in general. Therefore I would suggest that duos will only be allowed to be in SQ if these conditions apply:

1. There must be another duo on the other team.

2. There must be no more than one duo per team.


Of course, duos will still be allowed in GQ.

I would not mind if there was another Duo on the other team.. It's just a nice easy way of people having fun without getting stomped all the time..

Also, it would be MUCH easier to introduce friends to the game.. cose' nobody's gonna start playing with a friend on the basis of loosing 10 matches in a row cose' a big unit just happens to be on that night..

Also, sure, a top-tier 2-man can sway the game.. but how often would that happen really? And again, it's not the same result when a 2-man drop commands, and attempts to lead pugs, and when you face a well-trained 8-man that drops together exclusively..

Edited by Vellron2005, 11 June 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[Besh]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

I would not mind if there was another Duo on the other team.. It's just a nice easy way of people having fun without getting stomped all the time..

Also, it would be MUCH easier to introduce friends to the game.. cose' nobody's gonna start playing with a friend on the basis of loosing 10 matches in a row cose' a big unit just happens to be on that night..

Also, sure, a top-tier 2-man can sway the game.. but how often would that happen really? And again, it's not the same result when a 2-man drop commands, and attempts to lead pugs, and when you face a well-trained 8-man that drops together exclusively..

You can see 2Pilot Groups carrying even in GroupQ, quite often tbh., racking up anywhere between 5 and 8 kills between the 2 of them . And thats against "organized" and "coordinated" opposition XD :

[Lykaon]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

So guys, tell me this..

How many times you just wanna drop a few quick games with your friend or your significant other, you crate a group of two, and hit the launch button, and end up in a match with many other similarly sized and entirely uncoordinated groups on your side, and a big 8+ premade on the enemy team, resulting in a less then 5 minute 0:12 stomp?

I play in small groups nearly every Saturday night (small groups being 2-4 players with 2 being the most frequent group size)

And I would say that I see a match with a group of 6+ players fewer than half the time and a group of 8+ premade less than 20% of the time.

We play North American server mostly and within "prime time" hours.I would say actual skill levels of me and my team mates to be tier 2 levels of play (dispite the XP bar claiming otherwise)

I experience a landslide loss probably fewer than a quarter of the time and not always because the enemy team had a large premade.

I can also tell you that just because your team gets a 8+ player premade does not mean those players will be any good. The large groups size is not a forgone conclusion that victory will be yours.

I have to say that your biggest enemy is confirmation bias and not the rare 8+ player enemy premades you may run across fewer than a quarter of your games and the even rarer still 8+ player premades that are actually any good.


Here is the thing I am not "ace" mechwarrior material but I am a solid player that tends to perform in the top third of my drop for damage/kills/match score etc. My group mates are of a similar skill level and when we get a four player group going our lance ussually does over half the kills and damage for those matches we participate in.

With a two player group we can have a considerable impact on if our team does well BUT...if the rest of our team plays poorly no two "averagely decent players" are going to salvage that train wreck.

And it is rarely due to the enemy team being composed of large groups that my team loses or even if they do have a larger group size it's not common for the victory the be earned by some brilliant act of smooth co-ordiantion.It's more often than not a error performed by my team that results in a loss.

[Nema Nabojiv]

You can drop in two man groups in scouting, solaris (is it still alive btw?), GQ and FP.

[El Bandito]

Nema Nabojiv, on 11 June 2018 - 02:10 AM, said:

You can drop in two man groups in scouting, solaris (is it still alive btw?), GQ and FP.

Solaris solo is still very much alive. Solaris duo is basically dead.

[Bud Crue]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

So guys, tell me this..

I know it's called "group que", but I believe it's not fair for groups of 2, or perhapse 3 to be matched against large premades? It is almost always a one-sided stomp for the premade, and after 2-3 drops like that, I just wanna break my keyboard and rage quit..

Yep, its called group queue. Nothing for it. It’s the new comp queue for those who aren’t quite comp or want to practice to be comp, and the rest of us casual (beer league?) players are just in there to fill out the other side.

That, plus the population is apparently elsewhere, and so nearly always, of late, just 1-2 large groups running on a given night, then you and I and the rest of us small fry are going to be joined up to form a similar sized group to fight them. Over and over and over. For me and mine, most nights we fight a large group of -42- and friends; other nights its a mix of -228- and friends. Sometimes its both. Cest’ la.

Don’t rage quit though. Have fun with it. After it becomes clear that herding cats is beyond you and your abilities, then just say screw it, time to play goofy builds, or try odd tactics, play crazy stuff, do crazy things, try and get your fellow scrubs to go along with it if you can (doubtful of course...I mean if they won’t listen to normal calls they aren’t going to listen to goofy stuff, but so what) I mean your probably going to get stomped anyway so make the best of it.

Tangentially, what I find most amusing about the GQ status quo, is that night after night of mostly losses my PSR doesn’t budge in the downward. I mean seriously now PGI, this is probably the 5-6 week were we have gone night after night of something like, 12 losses and 2 wins with nearly every session of play, and yet there has been no noticeable effect on the ole tier bar; it’s still buried in T1. We are the gods of the equal sign I guess.

Oh well.

Edited by Bud Crue, 11 June 2018 - 03:36 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

So guys, tell me this..

How many times you just wanna drop a few quick games with your friend or your significant other, you crate a group of two, and hit the launch button, and end up in a match with many other similarly sized and entirely uncoordinated groups on your side, and a big 8+ premade on the enemy team, resulting in a less then 5 minute 0:12 stomp?

I know it's called "group que", but I believe it's not fair for groups of 2, or perhapse 3 to be matched against large premades? It is almost always a one-sided stomp for the premade, and after 2-3 drops like that, I just wanna break my keyboard and rage quit..

SO..

What I propose is this:

Have groups of 2 drop into the SOLO Que.. not into GROUP que..

That way, it would be alot more fun to play with uncoordinated team against an uncoordinated team.. no unfair skill advantage, no Linbacker/Assassin rushes, no frustration when you have 30 minutes or an hour of play time and you just want to spend it with somebody important to you with out too much hassle.

And teams of 2 don't have enough sway to pull the game this way or that.. and even if they go off and do their own thing, it's only two people.. not 4.. not 6..

Would you be up for this?

Start playing with the 10 others on your side, like your enemy does.

Use some sort of teamwork, like your enemy may be doing.

Then again, you are not doing your side any favors sitting behind them lerming now are you?

If you do not like getting rolled over and over, and nobody does, then do what must be done to stop from getting rolled over and over.

Putting 2 man groups into SOLO queue will do nothing to stop you from getting rolled over and over.

Working as a TEAM will stop you from getting rolled over and over.

Go play Solaris 2man and get rolled there over and over and see where the problem is.

Make two more friends if possible and play scouting.

[Cloves]

The problem you are seeing is that the group que is not forgiving to new or less competitive players. Opening the QP que to groups just makes the QP que less forgiving. If they do that two man teams will be another place for tryhards to buff thier stats. What if you want to play with your girlfriend and your buddy? What you want is for there to be a matchmaker in group que, and there is not the population to support that. It makes introducing new players very difficult for most of us. I hated dropping with my friends as a new player, it just meant I died instantly. Without bots to fight, or a significantly better matchmaker, a new player should not be in the same game as an experienced player, it just leads to a bad experience for somebody, somewhere.

[Besh]

Do private Lobbys still exist ?

[Cloves]

Besh, on 11 June 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

Do private Lobbys still exist ?

. Taking your girlfriend to a private lobby, then playing against her, that can’t end well for most folks. The assumption is that the duo is of different skill levels (one much lower) and this is leading to an unsatisfactory experience in the competitive group que. The proposed solution was to allow them into the less competitive QP que. Which already has matchmaker issues (would they seed at his higher tier or the new players tier). Under the current restraints, joining a unit that offers training sounds like the best solution for his issue.

[El Bandito]

Cloves, on 11 June 2018 - 04:55 AM, said:

Under the current restraints, joining a unit that offers training sounds like the best solution for his issue.

Nah, easiest is just play duo GQ, and have fun regardless of winning or losing. I know several RL couples play in GQ together and although they are not good players, they still have fun. One can teach the other as they play.

[Dragonporn]

Yes, this horse is dead and must be buried. And no, we don't want duos dropping is solo QP, it's SOLO for a reason and as times and times over it has been stated, it will be farming ground for top tier pairs wrecking one side completely.

[Jman5]

1. This would break 10-man groups if the 2-mans are all shuffling off to bully the solo queue

2. Group Queue is already much smaller of the two queues, which would just increase the time it takes for form groups

3. Without 2 mans it's much harder to fit all the different sized teams together, which again making wait times longer for group queue.

4. It's not fair for the solo queue players (they are people too)

5. Group size is already balanced for by reducing their weight limit

6. Bigger groups does not mean more skill.


If anything, I would support the opposite. Allow solo players to opt in for group queue if needed. It would be limited to a maximum of 1 player per side. This would be used to help better fit oddly sized groups, decrease wait time in group queue, allow for 11-man groups, allow groups to find and recruit new players, and help better bridge the skill/weight differences between the two teams.

Edited by Jman5, 11 June 2018 - 07:00 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Not a week goes by without the "lets allow Groups into SoloQ" post.

Yet it is so clear why it will never happen in the very statement... Two key words: Group & Solo

It should not happen, will never happen, stop posting about it.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Pushing for 2-man prems in solo queue at the same time pushing for 8v8 in the solo queue. ****, people. How about this? Why don't we try leaving the most popular game mode in MW:O the **** alone?

[Kroete]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

So guys, tell me this..
.....
Have groups of 2 drop into the SOLO Que.. not into GROUP que..
....
And teams of 2 don't have enough sway to pull the game this way or that.. and even if they go off and do their own thing, it's only two people.. not 4.. not 6..

Would you be up for this?

Do you know the history of qp/groupplay in mwo?

And as you claimed in a lot of (lrms)posts (about you and your girl), the impaced of two can be great,
this counts even more in qp.
Think about 6 2mans against 12 pugs and me tell how this will end.

Its a bad idea.

Edited by Kroete, 11 June 2018 - 09:15 AM.

[Elizander]

There was a lot of outrage about this in the past. I don't think PGI wants the forums on fire again so soon after the salt mining that happened after they announced stock world championships.

We probably need a list of massive player tantrums in the past so that we just don't go around in circles.