58 replies to this topic

[Shadowomega1]

Elizander, on 13 June 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

We also need to know if the percentage bonuses from set bonus (TBR Prime) and skill tree nodes are now worse after they modify the base stats of the TBR (which are what these percentages work off).

Stats on a Timberwolf Warrant without 8/8 bonus and without skills are as follows:

Acceleration 17.72
Deceleration 19.66
Turn Rate 42.39
Torso Turn Rate 76.5
Torso Pitch 48
Arms Pitch 191
Arms Yaw 191

Without 8/8 but with full yaw speed: ( I will edit this line with a skill tree X/Y values for those wondering.)

Acceleration 19.58
Deceleration 22.41
Turn Rate 50.03
Torso Turn Rate 99.4
Torso Pitch 48
Arms Pitch 191
Arms Yaw 191

[The Mysterious Fox]

yay more sluggish mechs, fun yay

[Moochachoo]

Damn it, did they really have to nerf the entire chassis? Is TBR soo over powered that the devs felt compelled to not only have select pods have neg quirks, but the entire mech?

I don’t even see that many TBRs in QP.

Edited by Moochachoo, 13 June 2018 - 10:44 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Took them long enough..

[Elizander]

Remover of Obstacles, on 13 June 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

How will we know which pods have negative quirks now?


P.S. For the grammar police out there...

Accel = go faster

Where = a place

• They will probably drop the base Timberwolf agility stats down the bottom of the ocean.
  
• They will add quirks to the components that do not have negative quirks right now to supposedly make up for this downgrade.
  
• They'll totally forget that Skill Tree nodes and the base set bonus quirk for the TBR-Prime (accel/decel) are percentage based that apply to the base stats, so dropping the base agility of the Timberwolf immediately nerfs the entire Agility skill tree for TBR as well as the 10% accel/decel from the Prime set bonus.

Edited by Elizander, 14 June 2018 - 12:57 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

And the Hellbringer, Couldron Born, Summoner, Linebacker won't have to deal with reduce agility when using meta omnipods. Man it seems like the ptsd of the days of old if the Timbergod still effect the balance team.

Maybe one day we get help for those still affected.

[Khobai]

The Timberwolf relies heavily on low tonnage lasers because of its massive engine depriving it of podspace. So if clan lasers are nerfed, there is no absolutely reason for the Timberwolf's agility to remain nerfed. Because the thing that made it so scary in the past would no longer exist.

So just nerf clan lasers in a reasonable and sensible way (like -1 damage for CERML/-2 damage for CHLL)

Then you can make the timberwolf as agile as it should be without it being over the top.

Edited by Khobai, 14 June 2018 - 02:07 AM.

[Elizander]

Shadowomega1, on 13 June 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

Stats on a Timberwolf Warrant without 8/8 bonus and without skills are as follows:

Acceleration 17.72
Deceleration 19.66
Turn Rate 42.39
Torso Turn Rate 76.5
Torso Pitch 48
Arms Pitch 191
Arms Yaw 191

Without 8/8 but with full yaw speed: ( I will edit this line with a skill tree X/Y values for those wondering.)

Acceleration 19.58
Deceleration 22.41
Turn Rate 50.03
Torso Turn Rate 99.4
Torso Pitch 48
Arms Pitch 191
Arms Yaw 191

Timberwolf Prime with 8/8 set bonus and maximum Mobility Skill Tree:

Acceleration - 23.83
Deceleration - 26.45
Turn Rate - 55.1
Torso Turn Rate - 99.44

Pitch - 22+30
Pitch Speed - 48
Arms - 191

Yaw - 99
Yaw Speed - 99
Arms - 191

Edited by Elizander, 14 June 2018 - 03:22 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Well, it's something. But if they really need to make TBR relevant again, they need a bit more mobilty boost, as in better accel/decel and torso-turn, even if not as good as before but 50% towards it would be okay.

[FireStoat]

I took a screenshot of my warrant just to compare what it will be like after the patch. If it ends up being worse, then in my mind there will be no comparison for what I would want to play at that stage. The Ebon Jaguar kept all of its agility after the Civil War patch and remains a superior medium to long ranged weapons clan heavy. The Sun spider at 5 tons lighter has a modestly better agility profile but has about the same survival rate of a TBR with both of them having no durability quirks, and being non humanoid chassis when it comes to twisting away damage. The Orion IIC which has the same agility profile of the TBR has worse hardpoints but IS a humanoid mech which provides superior damage twisting, AND has durability quirks.

Meanwhile, the Marauder 3R laughs at the Sun Spider and TBR if a real fight is forced with only the Orion IIC making it a good show. The big issue in my mind is that when you're using a clan heavy mech that has only standard durability, you make use of a lot of rolling poke attacks from cover which is something the TBR used to be able to pull off. After the Civil War patch that was taken away, so the Ebon Jaguar took its place as it still performed like normal. If the TBR was returned to being able to execute a decent rolling poke, then we might see it used some more. Again, torso twisting away damage on this thing is not a realistic option.

Edited by FireStoat, 14 June 2018 - 08:40 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

FireStoat, on 14 June 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

I took a screenshot of my warrant just to compare what it will be like after the patch. If it ends up being worse, then in my mind there will be no comparison for what I would want to play at that stage. The Ebon Jaguar kept all of its agility after the Civil War patch and remains a superior medium to long ranged weapons clan heavy. The Sun spider at 5 tons lighter has a modestly better agility profile but has about the same survival rate of a TBR with both of them having no durability quirks, and being non humanoid chassis when it comes to twisting away damage. The Orion IIC which has the same agility profile of the TBR has worse hardpoints but IS a humanoid mech which provides superior damage twisting, AND has durability quirks.

Meanwhile, the Marauder 3R laughs at the Sun Spider and TBR if a real fight is forced with only the Orion IIC making it a good show. The big issue in my mind is that when you're using a clan heavy mech that has only standard durability, you make use of a lot of rolling poke attacks from cover which is something the TBR used to be able to pull off. After the Civil War patch that was taken away, so the Ebon Jaguar took its place as it still performed like normal. If the TBR was returned to being able to execute a decent rolling poke, then we might see it used some more. Again, torso twisting away damage on this thing is not a realistic option.

I find myself using the Warhawk B and or C, the Orion IIC-SK, Ebon Jaguar EC and or B, more than my Timberwolf-S. The only exception is my jump jet equipped 4/5 of a Star for FP.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 12:17 PM.

[Xetelian]

This is why I think Chris and Paul and whoever else is on that team are using ancient data and eldritch thinking to balance this game.


The TBR was a god tier mech when it came out.
The TBR is now a mediocre piece of garbage with too big of an engine and too low agility/mobility to be a threat.

Lets ingrain the negative stats into an already sluggish and slow mech to further punish it for being good 3 years ago.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 12:15 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

Throe, on 15 June 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Equally confusing is the mobility stats of the Summoner, a 'Mech which is only 5 tons lighter than the TBR, and yet is more agile than even some 55 ton 'Mechs.

Yea it tied in with the Linebacker and they're "special cases" in their books, be nice if the Timberwolf atleast get half of mobilty of them two. It make playable and not a pain to use.

[Brain Cancer]

Xetelian, on 15 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

This is why I think Chris and Paul and whoever else is on that team are using ancient data and eldritch thinking to balance this game.

The TBR was a god tier mech when it came out.
The TBR is now a mediocre piece of garbage with too big of an engine and too low agility/mobility to be a threat.

Lets ingrain the negative stats into an already sluggish and slow mech to further punish it for being good 3 years ago.

That's what happens to anything that becomes Too Good. It is never allowed the light of day again, lest it eat into new robot sales.

[Spare Parts Bin]

If they would fix the Timberwolf I would buy several. As it is I refuse to buy the Hero Omnimech and YES, Heroes are my thing.

[RicosRevenge]

Of course i'm glad with this news , 4 obsolete Mechs are viable again.

[Mortalcoil]

woah, PGI might make the most iconic mech in mechwarrior useful? Why would they do that?

[Battlemaster56]

They update the TBR changes on the patch notes news haven't read them yet but here they are.


Timber Wolf A:
Left Torso
Acceleration -5% removed
Deceleration -5% removed
Reverse Speed -10% removed
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -10% removed
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) -5 removed

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Reverse Speed 10% removed
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +10% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Set of 8
Torso Turn Angle (yaw) +5 removed

Timber Wolf C:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Set of 8
Missile Velocity 10% removed
Missile Cooldown 10% added

Timber Wolf D:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf Prime:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf S:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate Increased to 2.5% (from -5%)
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -10% removed
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) -5 removed

Set of 8
Torso Turn Rate reduced to 25% (from 30%)

Timber Wolf Warrent:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf Design notes: As the only 'Mech previously assigned negative quirks, we have decided to roll a number of these values into the baseline stats of the 'Mech and provide counter balancing positive quirks similar to other Clan 'Omnimechs rather then negative quirks. Some of the older quirks that we no longer utilize such as reverse speed, have been phased out from this pass. The net results will see the Timber Wolf operating at about 5-10% extra efficiency through a number of attributes that have been either phased out or reduced depending on their assignments.

For example, Despite the reduction to core Torso Turn Rate speed, the net result produces a higher value compared to where it is now:
Old settings, TBR-S Right Torso + TBR-Prime Left Torso:
76.5 base - 10% = 68.85 total
New settings, TBR-S Right Torso + TBR-Prime Left Torso
68 base + 7.5% = 73.1 total