58 replies to this topic

[Alan Hicks]

My timber wolves are rusting at their mechbays, the same goes for the Kodiaks and some others, since this game got one of the worst changes ever: engine d-sync.

Removing negative quirks and hurting the mech to have permanent unfavorable stats is nowhere near to revive the TW comeback.

Maybe PGI just hates the mech, but at the same time they favor others strangely...

WHY ???

Oh, I know why.

[Elizander]

Battlemaster56, on 17 June 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

They update the TBR changes on the patch notes news haven't read them yet but here they are.


Timber Wolf A:
Left Torso
Acceleration -5% removed
Deceleration -5% removed
Reverse Speed -10% removed
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -10% removed
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) -5 removed

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Reverse Speed 10% removed
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +10% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Set of 8
Torso Turn Angle (yaw) +5 removed

Timber Wolf C:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added
Missile Velocity +5% added
Missile Cooldown -5% added

Set of 8
Missile Velocity 10% removed
Missile Cooldown 10% added

Timber Wolf D:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf Prime:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf S:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate Increased to 2.5% (from -5%)
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -10% removed
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) -5 removed

Set of 8
Torso Turn Rate reduced to 25% (from 30%)

Timber Wolf Warrent:
Left Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Center Torso
Base Torso Yaw reduced to 80° (from 90°)
Torso Turn Speed Yaw Attribute reduced to 68 (from 76.5)

Right Torso
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5% added
Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +5 added

Timber Wolf Design notes: As the only 'Mech previously assigned negative quirks, we have decided to roll a number of these values into the baseline stats of the 'Mech and provide counter balancing positive quirks similar to other Clan 'Omnimechs rather then negative quirks. Some of the older quirks that we no longer utilize such as reverse speed, have been phased out from this pass. The net results will see the Timber Wolf operating at about 5-10% extra efficiency through a number of attributes that have been either phased out or reduced depending on their assignments.

For example, Despite the reduction to core Torso Turn Rate speed, the net result produces a higher value compared to where it is now:
Old settings, TBR-S Right Torso + TBR-Prime Left Torso:
76.5 base - 10% = 68.85 total
New settings, TBR-S Right Torso + TBR-Prime Left Torso
68 base + 7.5% = 73.1 total

As I suspected, this nerfs a Timberwolf that uses the maximum Mobility tree due to the lower base numbers.

The ending Yaw Rate for the TBR Prime with max mobility will end up 98.6 from 99 if my math is correct. I cannot do any math for the actual Yaw because PGI did not specify if the +5 Yaw from the omnipods are counted as BASE yaw or it just adds a +5 on top.

If this is base Yaw and modified by skill tree then there is no change. If this is just a total of +10 on top of the base after it is modified, it will be another nerf from 99 yaw to 98 yaw.

People will nitpick that this is a non-issue because no one maxes out the mobility tree anyway, but it is still an overall nerf to the maximum potential agility of the Timberwolf.

[Battlemaster56]

I guess that it was to, myself just couldn't do the math when I was at work but yeah even in a moderate use of the mobility tree it still hurts.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 18 June 2018 - 08:11 AM.

[LordBraxton]

I support giving the Twolf some agility back, but there is a huge swathe of Inner sphere assaults that lost all viability after the engine desync that are already a much lower power level than the twolf.

In short, MWO needs more aggressive balance changes

[Shadowomega1]

Go figure, they are going to nerf it even more.

[Emmett Fetladral]

Oh yes, indeed. They nerfed the TBR even more... I dont get it....

[Battlemaster56]

Mech was top dog, and they using old data to justify not buff the mech, while the EBJ that can do pretty much every single build the the Timberwolf can do but with better agility to offset some of it's weaknesses for the cost of 10 less tons with the same free tonnage and space to mess around with.

I just don't understand we got mechs that fill in alot of niche's that the Timberwolf could do, why can't throw the mech a bone.

[FireStoat]

Okay, the results are in. I took some screenshots of my Warrant Timberwolf before the patch and after the patch for its agility profile numbers. Here's what came back.

First off, I use 21 points in the mobility tree for max speed tweak since Quickdrops are badly rooted in the nascar battle plan, and I'm fond of the philosophy of "I don't need to be faster than them - I just need to be faster than YOU." method of survival when dealing with my team mates. I'm also a big fan of turn rate, so that explains my picks in the tree.



Next up, I use my Warrant with the 8/8 Omnipod bonus which gives some ballistic quirks and turn rate quirks some of the time. For other fights, I use a medium pulse x6 and ATM 6 x2 build for the hell of it. This means I have two different agility profiles to account for involving pre and post patch. Here we go.

Pre Patch, 8/8 Omnipods used for the bonus.



And now we have the Post Patch agility profile when using the 8/8 Omnipod Bonus below.



So, with that comparison made - I will move on to the Non 8/8 Omnipod build using mixed pods.
Below is Pre Patch



And now below we have the Post Patch of using mixed pods for the Warrant.




In summary, Post Patch when using the 8/8 Omnipod bonus I gained a tiny bit of torso turn rate and torso yaw speed. When I am using mixed pods on the Warrant, I have the exact same results for torso turn rate and torso yaw speed (a small buff). So, for my personal case of the TBR Warrant and using the 8/8 Omnipods for the bonus or dropping the left arm ballistic for the Prime left arm of 2 energy mounts, I gained hardly anything from the patch. Which is better than a nerf at least.

Edit - completely off topic, all of the above is a moot point as HBS Battletech came out with the first major patch for their game. Off I go - good luck with the MWO Flea madness.

Edited by FireStoat, 19 June 2018 - 03:15 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Checked my Warrant.

Pre patch stats

7/8 Omni Pods with 6/6 Torso speed, 3/5 Torso Yaw

Acceleration 19.58
Deceleration 22.41
Turn Rate 50.03
Torso Turn Rate 99.4
Torso Pitch Speed 48
Arms Pitch Speed 191
Arms Yaw Speed 191

Post Patch

7/8 Omni Pods with 6/6 Torso speed, 3/5 Torso Yaw
Acceleration 19.58
Deceleration 22.41
Turn Rate 50.03
Torso Turn Rate 98.6
Torso Pitch Speed 48
Arms Pitch Speed 191
Arms Yaw Speed 191

So a loose of .84 degrees a second in torso twist speed. So much for a 5% to 10% boost.

Now let us look at the IS 75 ton Marauder which is the Timberwolf's cousin.

No skills to worry about here on the first one

Acceleration 24.63
Deceleration 22.66
Turn Rate 50.42
Torso Twist Rate 90
Torso Pitch Speed 56
Arms Pitch Speed 225
Arms Yaw Speed 225

Now let us look at the Twist rate after 6/6 Torso Yaw Twist rate

Torso Twist rate 116.99

[The Mysterious Fox]

im kinda okay with incremental changes to weapons but our interactions with the game for damage is just a couple of mouse clicks.

i rather get an across-the-board agility buffs to all mechs so that playing them actually feels smooth and fun again, everything is just so sluggish its not fun.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Is the Warrant worth owning now or would the Jade Kite be better?

[Battlemaster56]

Depends what are you looking with those two heros?

[Shadowomega1]

Spare Parts Bin, on 20 June 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

Is the Warrant worth owning now or would the Jade Kite be better?

Jade Kite will leave you heavily disappointed due to it being a Night Gyr (Slow, pot bellied, and Super sluggish twister). Warrant has uses as an LRM/ATM mech with good backup weapon options.

[Battlemaster56]

Also Warrant have Laser hp that doesn't have jj's installed so you can laser vomit with more dhs.

[Elizander]

Elizander, on 14 June 2018 - 03:21 AM, said:

Timberwolf Prime with 8/8 set bonus and maximum Mobility Skill Tree:
Acceleration - 23.83
Deceleration - 26.45
Turn Rate - 55.1
Torso Turn Rate - 99.44
Pitch - 22+30
Pitch Speed - 48
Arms - 191
Yaw - 99
Yaw Speed - 99
Arms - 191

Just putting the post patch numbers for completion's sake.

Acceleration - 23.83
Deceleration - 26.45
Turn Rate - 55.11
Torso Turn Rate - 98.6
Pitch Angle - 22+30
Pitch Speed - 48
Yaw Angle - 99
Yaw Speed - 99

Edited by Elizander, 22 June 2018 - 06:43 AM.

[SlippnGriff]

It barely did anything. Not the fix it needed. Dont get your hopes up because itll never get the fix it needs now

[SlippnGriff]

Theres an acronym i know called “KISS”
Keep It Simple Stupid

Step 1: look at timber mobility BEFORE engine desync
Step 2: make those old values the new values and remove negative quirks
Step 3: fix all the other garbage mechs

Wow that was simple!

[SlippnGriff]

FireStoat, on 19 June 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Okay, the results are in. I took some screenshots of my Warrant Timberwolf before the patch and after the patch for its agility profile numbers. Here's what came back.

First off, I use 21 points in the mobility tree for max speed tweak since Quickdrops are badly rooted in the nascar battle plan, and I'm fond of the philosophy of "I don't need to be faster than them - I just need to be faster than YOU." method of survival when dealing with my team mates. I'm also a big fan of turn rate, so that explains my picks in the tree.



Next up, I use my Warrant with the 8/8 Omnipod bonus which gives some ballistic quirks and turn rate quirks some of the time. For other fights, I use a medium pulse x6 and ATM 6 x2 build for the hell of it. This means I have two different agility profiles to account for involving pre and post patch. Here we go.

Pre Patch, 8/8 Omnipods used for the bonus.



And now we have the Post Patch agility profile when using the 8/8 Omnipod Bonus below.



So, with that comparison made - I will move on to the Non 8/8 Omnipod build using mixed pods.
Below is Pre Patch



And now below we have the Post Patch of using mixed pods for the Warrant.




In summary, Post Patch when using the 8/8 Omnipod bonus I gained a tiny bit of torso turn rate and torso yaw speed. When I am using mixed pods on the Warrant, I have the exact same results for torso turn rate and torso yaw speed (a small buff). So, for my personal case of the TBR Warrant and using the 8/8 Omnipods for the bonus or dropping the left arm ballistic for the Prime left arm of 2 energy mounts, I gained hardly anything from the patch. Which is better than a nerf at least.

Edit - completely off topic, all of the above is a moot point as HBS Battletech came out with the first major patch for their game. Off I go - good luck with the MWO Flea madness.

Actual proof the ‘balance team’ doesnt know what they’re doing. The mech needs a buff, no a single point in turn rate

[NimoStar]

Quote

because PGI did not specify if the +5 Yaw from the omnipods are counted as BASE yaw or it just adds a +5 on top.

Dumbly, all 'mech and omnipods stats raises are concurrent with the skill tree, not prior.

In other words they just "add" and are not "multiplied",

Another fine coding from PGI (In case you didn't notice, I am being sarcastic)

And they probably didn't even think of the skill trees.


Basically, with skill trees maxed this is more nerf than buff.

Fortunately I had the foresight :V of using full armor tree instead.

Edited by NimoStar, 22 June 2018 - 07:48 AM.