28 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 13 June 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

I'm just wondering why the values are all over the place. AC/2 is 174 damage per ton, AC/5 is 175, AC/10 is 230, and AC/20 is 160...should just be 200 for all of them.

Thats way beyond PGI dude....

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 14 June 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

The problem with pushing its range higher is that it might start to encroach upon the AC/5, though I wouldn't mind the AC/5 (and consequently AC/2) getting pushed up themselves.

Yes and no; a pair of AC/5 still has more DPS. I have to make the choice on whether I want to spend my weight on alpha or DPS, just like I do when I choose 3x AC/2 instead of 2x AC/5. That said, I wouldn't be against dropping the DPS on the AC/10 a little bit if the range goes up; part of the problem it has now is that AC/10 builds are competing in an overcrowded segment featuring builds that offer bigger DPS or bigger alpha.

[Xetelian]

Obviously the OP has never put on a UAC10 UAC20 or a clan UAC5.

ESPRIT DE CORPS
ANH-1A

You see how it says each ammo contains 2x to 3x the amount of actual shots they do? The cUAC20 is still only 7 shots per ton at the moment but since it shoots 4 bullets PGI decided to make figuring out how many shots you have by factoring the amount of bullets you fire into the equation. It's dumb, but it is what it is.




I just love how even the simplest changes that look like the clans are getting some benefit above the IS someone does the immediate post about it instead of simply checking smurfy or mechdb to see what is going on, or you know, using the weapons.



Thank god mechdb is going to have a 'how many shots you have' worked out for weapons when building with it. I get tired of going "is 300 really enough ammo for 4x cUAC5s?" "How many times can I fire?" "How much effective damage is that?"

Edited by Xetelian, 14 June 2018 - 06:12 PM.

[Bohxim]

Even with the disadvantages, The IS Ac10 has its pros too.
Single shell 10 dmg shots = excellent crit weapons for coring out equipment. 2 ac5 shells has to roll 2 crit rolls to try and hit the same component, the Ac10 just rolls one and crits it out. If memory serves me correctly, the only thing that doesn't get single shot critted out by an Ac10 shell is the Ac20 cannon. Am aware that of course, having multiple mgs would be better, but just stating a consideration.
Sometimes due to weapon placement, having a single gun may be better than 2 guns due to convergence when leading targets. Especially if there is 1 in the low slung gun arm or like in the jager mechs, 2 wide spread gun arms.
Personally I've always favored the 10 caliber ballistics, maybe it's the playstyle thing haha

[Luminis]

FupDup, on 14 June 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

I feel like the base stats of the gun (DPS, velocity, whatever) is where the "4 ton jump" compensation should come into play rather than ammo inconsistency. Besides, the AC/10 still needs better base values anyways...

I mean, increasing ammo per ton indirectly reduces the total weight of the weapon system. Post patch, you'll rarely want more than two tons of ammo per gun for the ten-class ballistics (which is apprx. 550 damage with ammo nodes), that's more than 2.5 tons of five-class ammo (which is apprx. 525 damage with ammo nodes).

Free ammo isn't the worst way to address weight and crit slot disparities.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I just wish the new ammo values were rounded up a bit. Why not 90 rounds per ton instead of 87? 24 instead of 23?

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 14 June 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

I feel like the base stats of the gun (DPS, velocity, whatever) is where the "4 ton jump" compensation should come into play rather than ammo inconsistency. Besides, the AC/10 still needs better base values anyways...

the AC/10 is never going to compete with the UAC/10 no matter how good you make its stats.

because 10 PPFLD isnt enough PPFLD to justify the DPS loss of not using a UAC instead

the only way I can see of making the AC/10 worthwhile is to completely change how UACs work. Which PGI should do anyway because the way UACs work now is garbage. UACs should be changed over to use the RAC jambar mechanic. And RACs should be changed to use a magazine based mechanic.

also I think standard autocannons should have better range and velocity than UACs as a general rule. there has to be some kindve tradeoff for doing that much less DPS.

Edited by Khobai, 15 June 2018 - 03:46 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 15 June 2018 - 03:41 AM, said:

the AC/10 is never going to compete with the UAC/10 no matter how good you make its stats.

because 10 PPFLD isnt enough PPFLD to justify the DPS loss of not using a UAC instead

the only way I can see of making the AC/10 worthwhile is to completely change how UACs work. Which PGI should do anyway because the way UACs work now is garbage. UACs should be changed over to use the RAC jambar mechanic. And RACs should be changed to use a magazine based mechanic.

also I think standard autocannons should have better range and velocity than UACs as a general rule. there has to be some kindve tradeoff for doing that much less DPS.

I've been complaining about the AC/10 being mediocre before the UAC/10 was even added to the game. The UAC/10 might have made its plight worse, but it's been needing attention for many years.

But yes, you are right that overall there is a systemic design issue with how UACs are designed (+1 ton and +1 slot for nearly double DPS is quite silly).

[lazorbeamz]

Khobai, on 15 June 2018 - 03:41 AM, said:

the AC/10 is never going to compete with the UAC/10 no matter how good you make its stats.

because 10 PPFLD isnt enough PPFLD to justify the DPS loss of not using a UAC instead

the only way I can see of making the AC/10 worthwhile is to completely change how UACs work. Which PGI should do anyway because the way UACs work now is garbage. UACs should be changed over to use the RAC jambar mechanic. And RACs should be changed to use a magazine based mechanic.

also I think standard autocannons should have better range and velocity than UACs as a general rule. there has to be some kindve tradeoff for doing that much less DPS.

AC10 deals like 4.4 dps. UAC 10 deals like 5.2 dps with double tap.

So UAC gives you double alpha strike and a 15% dps increase. But the ac10 gives you like 25% damage per heat advantage and also allows an additional double heat sink on top of it. For 1v1 situations like in s7 you will always take ac10 and not uac10. In QP if you want to 1v1 someone youre going to be ganked most of the time and thats why Ultra 10 is perhaps on par or somwhat preferable for single queue.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 15 June 2018 - 02:03 PM.