69 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

stonefalcon, is that with laser vomit or PPCs? Or something like 6 LL fired alternating? I'm probably gonna pick one up and am curious how best to kit it out.

[The Lighthouse]

How about this Clan mech build? Here is my supernova.

SNV-B

Can remove that one jumpjet and a bit armor shaving to put three additional heatsinks as well.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 14 June 2018 - 10:39 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Do you guys really think buffing it by 0.01 will make them better? During event I picked stock mechs, tweaked their builds to work with SHS, and they were beyond awful in term of actual heat mitigation. Plus in overwhelming majority of my builds both Clan and IS I have always lack of tonnage, never lack of slots, and when I can get something for one ton and 2/3 slots, that works WAY better than same thing for 1 ton - 1slot, I choose the former.

IMO, it's sad that SHS are in such a denial. Even IS XL and STD engies have some uses and niche, while SHS have absolutely no use whatsoever. Me thinks leaving cooling as it is, but drastically buffing threshold might actually make it more useful and creating its own niche of uses. Having every mech running DHS is just silly...

[Eisenhorne]

Dragonporn, on 15 June 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Do you guys really think buffing it by 0.01 will make them better? During event I picked stock mechs, tweaked their builds to work with SHS, and they were beyond awful in term of actual heat mitigation. Plus in overwhelming majority of my builds both Clan and IS I have always lack of tonnage, never lack of slots, and when I can get something for one ton and 2/3 slots, that works WAY better than same thing for 1 ton - 1slot, I choose the former.

IMO, it's sad that SHS are in such a denial. Even IS XL and STD engies have some uses and niche, while SHS have absolutely no use whatsoever. Me thinks leaving cooling as it is, but drastically buffing threshold might actually make it more useful and creating its own niche of uses. Having every mech running DHS is just silly...

The graph OP made on Page 1 shows 21 DHS (including the 10 engine heatsinks) is equal to 28 SHS. 21 DHS is generally the maximum you can get in an IS mech, due to each taking up so much extra space. So if you can get above 28 SHS, you will have better cooling than any possible DHS build.

Compare these 2 black knight builds...

https://mwo.smurfy-n...727b957f5662a20

https://mwo.smurfy-n...1b40c323fe660ee

The DHS build has a bit more speed and armor, but the SHS build has better cooling and heat cap.

[Korz]

What they should do is make a special leg only double heat sink for IS mechs. They cost more c-bills and only go in the legs of IS mechs but they only take up the two slots in the legs. This would help out IS mechs a lot with # of heat sinks.

[Christof Romulus]

Dragonporn, on 15 June 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Do you guys really think buffing it by 0.01 will make them better?

Absolutely without a doubt in my mind.

Math doesn't lie, there are break-points where Single Heatsinks for both Inner Sphere AND Clan where, after they get buffed, Single Heatsinks can be superior to - or if not superior on par with - Double Heatsink builds.

While there will always be the idea that people will prefer Double Heatsinks (and I'm one of these people, by the way) due to the weight savings, this change will bring SHS closer in-line to DHS allowing for new players who pick up Inner Sphere mechs the ability to create builds that, while some would not consider them OPTIMAL, are competitive without paying the 2.5m cbill DHS tax.

Dragonporn, on 15 June 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

During event I picked stock mechs, tweaked their builds to work with SHS, and they were beyond awful in term of actual heat mitigation. Plus in overwhelming majority of my builds both Clan and IS I have always lack of tonnage, never lack of slots, and when I can get something for one ton and 2/3 slots, that works WAY better than same thing for 1 ton - 1slot, I choose the former.

IMO, it's sad that SHS are in such a denial. Even IS XL and STD engies have some uses and niche, while SHS have absolutely no use whatsoever. Me thinks leaving cooling as it is, but drastically buffing threshold might actually make it more useful and creating its own niche of uses. Having every mech running DHS is just silly...

I don't think that this change is going to make stock builds competitive - nobody is making that argument I'm sure.

Honestly I don't see much use for SHS, even post buff, in mechs that can't effectively boat them to begin with - though I'm sure there are medium mech fire-support pilots out there who are more than willing to prove me wrong.

What this buff, however minor one may believe it to be, allows is choice. People will be able to choose whether or not they want faster mechs (larger engine) with less cooling (DHS) or slower mechs with more cooling (SHS).

Personally, while I would nearly always choose the former, I love the idea of having the CHOICE.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dragonporn, on 15 June 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Do you guys really think buffing it by 0.01 will make them better? During event I picked stock mechs, tweaked their builds to work with SHS, and they were beyond awful in term of actual heat mitigation. Plus in overwhelming majority of my builds both Clan and IS I have always lack of tonnage, never lack of slots, and when I can get something for one ton and 2/3 slots, that works WAY better than same thing for 1 ton - 1slot, I choose the former.

IMO, it's sad that SHS are in such a denial. Even IS XL and STD engies have some uses and niche, while SHS have absolutely no use whatsoever. Me thinks leaving cooling as it is, but drastically buffing threshold might actually make it more useful and creating its own niche of uses. Having every mech running DHS is just silly...

Its an ~8% buff, so objectively it is making them better. Its not really going to help stock mechs, but its going to greatly improve mechs where SHS are a better option than DHS and create some more situations where SHS boating is better than DHS boating. Mechs such as Annihilator and Supernova already run SHS for laser based builds.

Basically DHS for most common builds while SHS are great for assault mech laser boats that have tonnage to spare but not a whole lot of slots. Its a great option on builds that don't have access to gauss to pair with their lasers.

[Christof Romulus]

So, with keeping in mind the buff that's coming down for Single Heatsinks;

Everyone, post your best build ideas! I'm truly interested in the possibilities.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

AWS-8Q

It's 3kph slower than its DHS counterpart that sports a STD engine, but gets slightly more cooling efficiency.
And that's pre-patch.

[Eisenhorne]

ANH-1E

6 Large Lasers, 33 SHS. With the -10% heat quirk, it should run quite cold... able to fire out blast after blast.

[Khobai]

Dragonporn, on 15 June 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Do you guys really think buffing it by 0.01 will make them better?

yes.

there are already niche builds where using SHS is better than DHS

as long as SHS at least have a use on niche builds their existence is justifiable

Quote

I don't think that this change is going to make stock builds competitive - nobody is making that argument I'm sure.

competitive is relative to what youre playing against though

if youre playing stock mechs against other stock mechs theyre plenty competitive

Edited by Khobai, 18 June 2018 - 10:31 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

BNC-3M

[Aidan Crenshaw]

the aforementioned Awesome build gained a whopping .08 Heatmanagement over the DHS variant. That's a win !

[Eleshod]

Not the most efficient STALKER out there but the SHS buff was just that, a pure buff for my build.

https://i.gyazo.com/...0801699deee.png

Please ignore the armor values, this is after a stock reset so I haven't gotten to alcolating them much yet, only to even things out a bit.

Edited by Eleshod, 21 June 2018 - 10:57 AM.

[Rhialto]

Eleshod, on 21 June 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Not the most efficient STALKER out there but the SHS buff was just that, a pure buff for my build.

https://i.gyazo.com/...0801699deee.png

Please ignore the armor values, this is after a stock reset so I haven't gotten to alcolating them much yet, only to even things out a bit.

I can't ignore you could have saved 2 slots but putting 2 in the engine! Just kidding...

[Eleshod]

Rhialto, on 21 June 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I can't ignore you could have saved 2 slots but putting 2 in the engine! Just kidding...

Crit padding, I had plenty of slots and tonnage evened out. If I get something blown open I'd rather have a heatsink get popped instead of a weapon.

[Grus]

My banchee is happy

[NimoStar]

The single heat sinks do have a niche in theiry which is not "very high tonnage laser boating".

Single heatsinks can be put on the legs and thus suppossedly have double cooling when on water.

The problem is maps don't have enpugh water or such strategically placed to make this really useful.

In MW4 all arena maps have generous quantities and distributions of water (even the industrial one was flooded)

[FupDup]

NimoStar, on 21 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

The single heat sinks do have a niche in theiry which is not "very high tonnage laser boating".

Single heatsinks can be put on the legs and thus suppossedly have double cooling when on water.

The problem is maps don't have enpugh water or such strategically placed to make this really useful.

In MW4 all arena maps have generous quantities and distributions of water (even the industrial one was flooded)

Doesn't matter how much water we have, DHS builds usually cool faster on land than SHS builds cool in the water (outside of those few mechs that have the tonnage to boat a crapton of SHS).

[NimoStar]

I think that problem is abpout the SHS/DHS on the engine.

IMO, heatsinks on engine should have a flat rate, while single/double only counts for those outside.-