Shs Buff: Why Can't We Mix Shs And Dhs In Our Builds?
#1
Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:35 PM
#2
Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:46 PM
#3
Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:53 PM
http://www.sarna.net...ouble_Heat_Sink
Essentially DHS are incompatible with SHS on any given mech.
#4
Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:53 PM
#6
Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:04 PM
#7
Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:05 PM
I wouldn't see any harm in allowing heatsink mixing, and on the bright side it lets PGI make SHS useful in a way that still preserves the DHS tax that 99.9% of mechs have to pay (PGI doesn't want to buff SHS used alone because that means fewer C-Bills get spent).
#8
Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:18 PM
#9
Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:16 PM
http://www.sarna.net...uble_Heat_Sinks
I'm just going to leave this here and walk away... since people are asking if using Sarna is so hard XD
#10
Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:18 AM
Then lets ask a better question then. Why does this rules exist? Especially in MWO? Why? In TT it was sometimes necesary to simplify rules so people could calculate heat dissapation in our heads. But we would be in MWO already with double heatsinks being 1.4 heatsinks.
So why not allow us to mix them?
While we are at it, why not mix Artemis and non-Artemis launchers?
#11
Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:04 AM
#12
Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:12 AM
Something like 1.6?
#13
Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:13 AM
#14
Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:23 AM
But otherwise I see no reason it shouldnt be allowed.
Mixed ISDHS/SHS
10 internal DHS = 20 dissipation
12 external SHS = 14.4 dissipation
Total dissipation = 34.4 dissipation for 12 tons and 12 crit slots
CDHS
10 internal DHS = 20 dissipation
10 external DHS = 15 dissipation
Total dissipation = 35 dissipation for 10 tons and 20 crit slots
See how broken that is? Thats way better than clan doubles. That would just be wrong.
SHS would have to be lowered to like 0.9 to be balanced with mixed DHS. With those nerfs, its doable though.
Edited by Khobai, 15 June 2018 - 04:49 AM.
#15
Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:28 AM
justcallme A S H, on 14 June 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:
Yeah, cause everyone playing MWO is a BT diehard.
Nightbird, on 14 June 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:
At least someone here knows materials science.
Savage Wolf, on 15 June 2018 - 02:18 AM, said:
Then lets ask a better question then. Why does this rules exist? Especially in MWO? Why? In TT it was sometimes necesary to simplify rules so people could calculate heat dissapation in our heads. But we would be in MWO already with double heatsinks being 1.4 heatsinks.
So why not allow us to mix them?
See above.
Edited by Mystere, 15 June 2018 - 04:33 AM.
#16
Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:40 AM
Khobai, on 15 June 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:
But otherwise I see no reason it shouldnt be allowed.
Mixed ISDHS/SHS
10 internal DHS = 20 dissipation
11 external SHS = 13.2 dissipation
Total dissipation = 33.2 dissipation for 11 tons and 11 crit slots
CDHS
10 internal DHS = 20 dissipation
10 external DHS = 14 dissipation
Total dissipation = 34 dissipation for 10 tons and 20 crit slots
See how broken that is? Thats way better than clan doubles. That would just be wrong.
SHS would have to be lowered to like 0.9 to be balanced with mixed DHS.
True, it would definitely require a rebalancing of SHS.
But it also illustrates how silly the current system with free engine dubs are as it completely messes up the natural balance point of SHS vs DHS, which should be a tradeoff between space and tonnage.
It would be interesting to see for example how a mixed system would work out with completely vanilla numbers, in other words all SHS = 1.0 and all DHS 2.0, and allowing mixing (effectively meaning all engine sinks are 2.0 and the externals are mixed as desired). I actually think that might be a pretty nice balance. (Clan external DHS should probably be something like 1.7 in that scenario.)
You could also do the above model with all engine mounted sinks being SHS (for both IS and Clan) and DHS only being available as external heatsinks. That would avoid the potential creep in firepower that mixed sinks could otherwise lead to. I think I like this alternative better.
Edited by Sjorpha, 15 June 2018 - 04:45 AM.
#17
Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:43 AM
Quote
SHS would have to be 0.9 for mixed heatsinks to not be completely better than CDHS
At 0.9 youd get...
10 internal DHS (20 disspation)
15 external SHS (13.5 dissipation)
Total dissipation = 33.5 dissipation for 15 tons and 15 crits
thats far more comparable to the 10 tons and 20 crits for CDHS
Quote
That screws clans over pretty badly though to force them to use SHS internally when they could use DHS internally before. Their loadouts do typically run hotter.
Edited by Khobai, 15 June 2018 - 04:46 AM.
#18
Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:49 AM
Khobai, on 15 June 2018 - 04:43 AM, said:
SHS would have to be 0.9 for mixed heatsinks to not be completely better than CDHS
At 0.9 youd get...
10 internal DHS (20 disspation)
15 external SHS (13.5 dissipation)
Total dissipation = 33.5 dissipation for 15 tons and 15 crits
thats far more comparable to the 10 tons and 20 crits for CDHS
That screws clans over pretty badly though to force them to use SHS internally when they could use DHS internally before. Their loadouts do typically run hotter.
As I said Clan DHS would also be closer to 2.0 in that kind of model, maybe 1.8 or something. Maybe cDHS should even be 2.0 if their internals are SHS like in the second example.
Clans don't run hotter, that's a myth. Current Clan builds typically have the same or lower heat/damage than IS. You can't say a build runs hotter just because it chooses to mount more firepower, the relevant comparison is heat per damage or maximum sustained DPS with optimal heat management. For example the typical HBR laservomit build with 64 alpha has better sustained DPS than the typical 57 alpha WHR, and that's with a higher alpha and superior range too. That example is when the WHR is using 3LL and 6ML, you can approach the range of the HBR if you switch to ERML, but then the HBRs heat advantage increases even more. (On top of that the HBR is 5 tons lighter, has much better hardpoint locations, runs faster and has ECM)
So for comparable laser vomit builds the heat advantage is very firmly on the clan side in the current balance. The only advantages IS laser builds have right now is duration and cooldown (which isn't nothing of course as those advantages can win trades). Range, damage and heat advantage all goes to the clans as far as laser builds go.
The popular myth that clans are hotter has just been repeated so much that a lot of people believe it, but it has never been true.
Edited by Sjorpha, 15 June 2018 - 05:19 AM.
#19
Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:51 AM
Quote
IS-DHS still take up 3 crit slots instead of 2 crit slots. So id like to see IS-DHS be better than C-DHS.
I think it could work with:
IS-SHS at 0.8-0.9
IS-DHS at 2.0 (both internal and external)
C-DHS at 2.0 (internal) and 1.5 (external)
and allow SHS and DHS to be mixed
SHS would be better when you have a surplus of tonnage
DHS would be better when you have a surplus of crits
Edited by Khobai, 15 June 2018 - 05:02 AM.
#20
Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:15 AM
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