43 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

ManDaisy, on 17 June 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

Teamwork moves and can counter poptarts with multiple small shots. Only people who don't change position get eaten by poptarts

>Implying the other team isn't also just changing position. Poptarts are generally rather mobile mechs, best peekers are generally mechs that have exceptional accel and decel.

Also good job, takes the whole team of 12 people moving around, rushing, and taking little tiny shots on this one poptart to kill him. Meanwhile the other 11 poptarts have already killed the team that isn't up to par with the new meta.

ManDaisy, on 17 June 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

Small damage burst vs small damage burst? Poptarts be playing smart and scouting. I see no wrong. You just can't shoot a clay pidgeon outta the sky anymore.. And you CAN shoot back in small burst with minimal delay penalty not heat penalty. Wrong old wordage.

How long of a delay are we talking here for something like 20 damage anyway? I haven't seen any numbers suggested.

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 17 June 2018 - 12:37 AM.

[ManDaisy]

With this change I garantee big boy one shot gonna be harder and balanced but not dead like you overstate.

Sounds like you really hate poptarts.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

ManDaisy, on 17 June 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Sounds like you really hate poptarts.

No, I'm just a really good poptart and peeker and don't want it to become boring.

[ManDaisy]

You predict this will make everyone poptarts. Ok. But I don't think pgi will let that rest there. Meanwhile you have stated a lot of positive meta shifts this would bring. I believe it is a step forwards but no steps forwards do not have a step backwards. Poptarting is valids. For you this may make it boring. That is not my delimma.

[ManDaisy]

If I were to twist your words your argument is the only reason poptarting is not here is because if instant large damge return fire making you keep you head down. That is lameer then poptarting.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

ManDaisy, on 17 June 2018 - 12:47 AM, said:

If I were to twist your words your argument is the only reason poptarting is not here is because if instant large damge return fire making you keep you head down. That is lameer then poptarting.

Poptarting is currently viable and meta, most of the heavy mechs in the world tournament were poptart builds such as the Night Gyr and Summoner. There were no high alpha laser vomit heavy mechs used in the finals of the tournament, as they already struggle with poptarts due to lower range, extremely long cooldowns, and already massive heat, so high that they can be easily overwhelmed by the light/medium rush of Wolfhounds and Assassins that commonly occurred while the PPFLD builds would often be able to scare off lights with precision damage.

I'm stating that if you were to further nerf the already weakest link then you'd just reinforce the meta.

You aren't suggesting something that would really shift the meta at all, you're just setting it in stone.

[Davegt27]

how about buff armor across the board by 30%

something they should have done when they went from 8V8 to 12V12

[ManDaisy]

So you are saying my suggestion would not effects high end builds and shift the game if lower end majority player base who complain of time to kill by penalizing by adding delay instead of heat?

So you are saying my suggestion would not effects high end builds and shift the game if lower end majority player base who complain of time to kill by penalizing by adding delay instead of heat? Too much armor won't help. Already much. Too much armor just leads to small weapons useless. See mw4

The change in heat penalty to delay penalty would poke a hole I n your arguement.

[Dogstar]

I can't find the post where I proposed this before but putting a maximum cap of 30 on damage per second is how to implement this.

So if I fire weapons that do 30 ppfld damage the game prevents me from firing any more weapons for a whole second. However I can put out quite big laser vomit as laser times can stretch over multiple seconds, thus a 60pt laser 'alpha' needs to have a two second burn time.

In addition the game needs to prevent you from grouping together weapons that can exceed the rule above.

Dual HGR/AC20/UAC20 is a problem however - either it needs to be an exception (thanks to the short range/cooldown) or it has to be chain fired (players will complain endlessly)

Bonus is that there are no ghost heat mechanics - you simply cannot go over the 30dps limit.

[ManDaisy]

This is different from my interpretation the big group damage would still be possible all at once.  But a large delay would come first making aiming harder.  With simulatanous queing.  If a second smaller. Bust was done after the large shot.  They could technically also overlap leading to a huge alpha we have now.  But you would need to break weapons fire groups down.  I do not believe limiting the burst Dame to 30 at a time is the right way to go tho.. Primarily our difference would be delay based on weapon combined traiys no simplified damage. My empasis would be getting rid of the .5 second ghost heat limiting making delay based on simultaneous firing. Thus chain fire in smaller damage groups would be more preminant

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 June 2018 - 01:20 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dogstar, on 17 June 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

I can't find the post where I proposed this before but putting a maximum cap of 30 on damage per second is how to implement this.

So if I fire weapons that do 30 ppfld damage the game prevents me from firing any more weapons for a whole second. However I can put out quite big laser vomit as laser times can stretch over multiple seconds, thus a 60pt laser 'alpha' needs to have a two second burn time.

30 PPFLD damage limit doesn't change anything since the most people fire anymore is dual gauss or dual HPPC and they already have a cooldown much longer than a second. There's like maybe one very marginal build on the Victor/Highlander using dual HPPC and an AC10 that'd you'd get rid of, its very far from meta.

There would be absolutely no reason to ever bring a 60 point laser build when you have to stand there for 2 seconds to fire it all while some guy just pops up and spits 30 damage at you in an instant.

Also DPS builds end up dominant, as lasers would not be able to out burst or out sustain them.

Once again just reinforcing the meta.

[ManDaisy]

I  want to point out that your meta and my meta are different as our tiers show just saying. I lactually have no problem with your meta. If you want to make meta go more burst then dps the please stop.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 June 2018 - 01:25 AM.

[ManDaisy]

I don't know about the numbers. They would have to be based on damage and weapon class. I would prob base it around the Gauss charge up. With ac 20 is having a damage delay ratio scaled based off that. The multiplier would be hard as it would be less then lasers but medium lasers with their base and multiplier assumed 4 is medium lasers should be slightly lower the an is ac20 combined delay due to their duration drawback.

I don't know about the numbers. They would have to be based on damage and weapon class. I would prob base it around the Gauss charge up. With ac 20 is having a damage delay ratio scaled based off that. The multiplier would be hard as it would be less then lasers but medium lasers with their base and multiplier assumed 4 is medium lasers should be slightly lower the an is ac20 combined delay due to their duration drawback. The balance being the multiplier is more significant with more weapons and base significant with less. These are delays instead of heat with the timing being simulatanous firing not .5 second intervals

[ManDaisy]

So duel Gauss would be naturally better then duel ac ,20 because gayss have only 1 manual charge up no matter the number. Duel ac 20 would have ac20 base times 2 plus ac 20 multiplier times two. It would be a bit more then 2 consecutive Gauss chargeups back to back

[ManDaisy]

As delay.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Instead of adding a firing delay, why not a cooldown increase? Proportional increase in cooldowns for all fired weapons over a certain energy threshold.

[ManDaisy]

Cause that would not make it any harder for the first alpha. Firing delay makes the shot harder to land making people want to avoid doing that.

[Appogee]

What if even one of the thousands of ideas posted in these forums was actually read by the devs and then acted on...?!

Dream on.

[ManDaisy]

Exact math.  Ac 20 delay = (Gauss charge up * Gauss heat * ac 20 dmg)/(ac 20 heat * Gauss dmg)
If enough people annoy russ on Twitter maybe they'll read about a post mentionedScale number of weapon type multiplier not included this is just base delay.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 June 2018 - 03:40 AM.

[Appogee]

ManDaisy, on 17 June 2018 - 03:55 AM, said:

I've had at least 2 hits and 1 big miss with sharing my ideas. I am happy with my 2 hits. But I dunno don't get too invested.

Fair enough. What were your two hits?