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A New Use For Jarl's List, Self Improvement


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#1 razenWing

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:32 AM

No doubt that the original implementation of the list has some sort of competitive overtone (to put it politely), as most people at one point abuse the crap out of it to use it as a way to discourage someone from sharing their ideas.

But, recently, I've been taking a closer look at Jarl's List. To me, it's not a definitive list of skills, but rather, it's a way to extract statistics that may be vital for self improvement.

So before you look at the list and get upset that 5000 people may be better than you, a few things that I've been looking at that might help you on your journey of self discovery. (basically, don't shy away from it because a few... lot of people abuse it for epeen purposes)

1. Correlate your average match score with survival rate. Higher survival rate = better score. This is a simple concept. Basically, the longer you live, the more damage you deal. Use this to think about what you may or may not be doing. Do you have the most kick butt mech, think you can outshoot the best of them, can analyze battlefield situation on a dime, but somehow jarl's list position doesn't reflect your true skill level? That might be why.

I analyze a lot of players (myself included) and found that as a unit, our reputation as stormtroopers has more or less affected our plays. As generally, we have low survival rate. If you increase that rate, and not charge at the first open opportunity, you can dramatically improve your scoring.

2. Specialist vs Generalist. Look at the top players on the jarl's list. You will notice a trend that most of those guys are specialists. Is it because they can only pilot a certain class? Not necessarily, but it does mean that as a specialist, you stand a higher chance of mastering than playing 4 weight classes equally. Which it makes sense, if you only practice free throws, you will be REALLY good at free throws, even if you are horrible at posting up or crossover. So it may be something to think about if you want to get better.

3. More weight + more firepower = shortcut. This goes without saying. Lots of people build mechs based on laughs and giggles. There is no purpose other than to fill in as much stuff as possible. Are you putting 2 mg + 2 srm + 2 LRM + 1 ppc on your mech because those are the hardpoints given? That's filling out, and while it's great to preserve the unique aspect of every mechs, it's not a great way to do things in a pvp game. 9/10 top 10 players specialize in heavier mechs. I don't think they believe that lights are worse, but lights are cumulative damages while 80 damage alpha is instant, so it's just more efficient to use high weapon loadouts. They can burst 240 damage in a span of 15 seconds, and merely have to repeat that 4-5 times to achieve ridiculous scores.

So while your marauders is going around lrming for 15 damage every 5 seconds at various range, those guys are punching a hole in your mech before you can even machine gun.

(so if you are struggling, may be practice first with good, simple loadouts)

4. It's not a big deal if you are within the mid tier. I think like 3-4k people have score within 25 points of one another. That's just the law of normal distribution. So you are fine, don't stress, play your game, and get better. But even if you don't, have fun and who gives a crap? (unless you are on my team and we just got rolled 12-2, then please go back to mechlab and not put 2 mg, 2 srm, 2 lrms with 1 ppc)

That's basically it. Use that list for self improvement, not for epeen. And remember, even if you average 100 match scores, your opinion is as important as anyone else as long as you buy a mechpack. b33f hasn't paid for a mechpack since god know when ago, why should his opinion weigh more than you, right?

Money talks, baby, not jarl's list.

Edited by razenWing, 17 June 2018 - 06:47 AM.


#2 MischiefSC

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:39 AM

Self improvement is the only good use for any scoreboard in this sort of environment.

#3 Mystere

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:45 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 17 June 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

Self improvement is the only good use for any scoreboard in this sort of environment.


So go out there and preach it! Posted Image

#4 razenWing

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:49 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 17 June 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

Self improvement is the only good use for any scoreboard in this sort of environment.


From the list, I'd say you need to work on survival rate too. Like Brody, good players die WAY too early. Make other people in KCOM push first Posted Image

#5 Magnus Santini

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:06 AM

The stats page and Jarl’s are very good for giving objective information on what mechs and modes are giving you good results and what needs work or to be avoided.

#6 El Bandito

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 10:12 AM

View PostrazenWing, on 17 June 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

But, recently, I've been taking a closer look at Jarl's List. To me, it's not a definitive list of skills, but rather, it's a way to extract statistics that may be vital for self improvement.


I have been using forum leaderboards/statistics for self improvement for years. Jarl's makes it bit easier, is all.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 June 2018 - 10:31 AM.


#7 Jay Leon Hart

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 10:59 AM

What else have you been using Jarl's for, if not to gauge your own performance?

#8 Nightbird

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:18 AM

Is there a way to see the Jarl list for only the current season? You can see it if you look someone up, but not everyone at once.

#9 MischiefSC

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:01 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 17 June 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:


From the list, I'd say you need to work on survival rate too. Like Brody, good players die WAY too early. Make other people in KCOM push first Posted Image


It's all QP, which I only play to test builds or brush up on stuff I don't usually play.

We don't really do GQ.

As to who pushes in first, hey when it's your turn it's your turn.

Edited by MischiefSC, 17 June 2018 - 12:04 PM.


#10 FupDup

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 02:22 PM

View PostJay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

What else have you been using Jarl's for, if not to gauge your own performance?

To elongate my prodigious e-peen, of course. Posted Image

#11 OmniFail

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 02:56 PM

Dear OP

Could you use your Jarls List thingy to analyze my numbers and give me advice on how to improve my match score and my survival rate?

I do specialize in assault lurm boats. I would play group play like MischiefSC and the others to improve my numbers. But no one will let me join their team. Because of … lurms. I would also buy heroic lurm boats to git gud. But every time I give the PGI man money he nerfs hard or spends my money on game modes and maps that depreciate my specialization and power creeps everyone else with their giant meta alphas.

Please help.

I want to git gud.

I am willing to try hard.

I don’t want to be…. potato….

Respectfully,
Huge Noob Omni

#12 Xmith

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 03:12 PM

Jarl's list is ok but you can strive to do exactly pretty much the same with MWO's stats and leaderboard.

#13 Bud Crue

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 05:42 PM

View PostJay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

What else have you been using Jarl's for, if not to gauge your own performance?


Well, I've been using it to look at and advertise my mediocre stats to then illustrate to PGI how utterly stupid their PSR system is. I had no idea that people used it for anything else. :)

#14 razenWing

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:40 PM

I made this thread mainly because I feel most people only use the Jarl's list to see their placement and that's it. Which is a shame, because you can extract a lot of data from a database, and should be used more than for epeen.

View PostOmniFail, on 17 June 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Dear OP

Could you use your Jarls List thingy to analyze my numbers and give me advice on how to improve my match score and my survival rate?

I do specialize in assault lurm boats. I would play group play like MischiefSC and the others to improve my numbers. But no one will let me join their team. Because of … lurms. I would also buy heroic lurm boats to git gud. But every time I give the PGI man money he nerfs hard or spends my money on game modes and maps that depreciate my specialization and power creeps everyone else with their giant meta alphas.

Please help.

I want to git gud.

I am willing to try hard.

I don’t want to be…. potato….

Respectfully,
Huge Noob Omni


Joke failed. If you pay PGI man money for lrm boat, those will never get nerfed. 3/10 for no attention to details

#15 Cloves

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

View PostNightbird, on 17 June 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

Is there a way to see the Jarl list for only the current season? You can see it if you look someone up, but not everyone at once.
. It only scrapes the database at the end of the month, you never see this seasons data, you might be looking at lifetime score which is weighted toward more recent data, and adjusted for mech weights.

#16 MischiefSC

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:24 PM

View PostOmniFail, on 17 June 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Dear OP

Could you use your Jarls List thingy to analyze my numbers and give me advice on how to improve my match score and my survival rate?

I do specialize in assault lurm boats. I would play group play like MischiefSC and the others to improve my numbers. But no one will let me join their team. Because of … lurms. I would also buy heroic lurm boats to git gud. But every time I give the PGI man money he nerfs hard or spends my money on game modes and maps that depreciate my specialization and power creeps everyone else with their giant meta alphas.

Please help.

I want to git gud.

I am willing to try hard.

I don’t want to be…. potato….

Respectfully,
Huge Noob Omni


Focus on win/loss first. If what you're doing isn't winning matches consistently then you're doing damage in a way that isn't winning matches. Your stats are a poster child for why LRMs are overall a bad weapon. You have seasons where your average match score is like 400 but your w/l is like 1.16. If you're doing that much damage with any other weapon you're driving wins. The problem is that you're specializing in damage farming at the expense of your teams success. If that's how you have fun, great. You do you. Just don't mistake why you're losing half the time.

I almost never play group queue. Maybe 1% of matches. FW I play a lot. Not really going to help with W/L for QP though. Playing in group queue with great players however is a great way for people to learn git gud stuff. See what they do that is successful. I should probably play GQ more often; just that when I have time to play I've got other stuff I want to do.

#17 Marius Evander

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:40 PM

until a teamgame leaderboard can split out :

- when playing skilled out mechs vs playing mechs unskilled/leveling
- stock / meta.
- leading from the front to share armor to increase chance of team winning / sitting at the back using entire team as a meat shield.
-tier being played in
-etc etc

leaderboards mean f all.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 17 June 2018 - 07:41 PM.


#18 Nightbird

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 07:43 PM

View PostCloves, on 17 June 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

. It only scrapes the database at the end of the month, you never see this seasons data, you might be looking at lifetime score which is weighted toward more recent data, and adjusted for mech weights.


Hmm, I mean the last season I guess, or by season.

#19 sharknoise

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:47 AM

Quote

Correlate your average match score with survival rate. Higher survival rate = better score. This is a simple concept. Basically, the longer you live, the more damage you deal. Use this to think about what you may or may not be doing.


When you say "more damage", you assume that a surviving pilot doesn't forget to fight, which isn't always true. Dying too early is bad, but so is standing or walking for too long without shooting and sharing armor. Solo queue has enough of the latter, overly cautious type. Maybe it's rare among groups and units with comms. Also match score seems rather useless as a way to track progress. My highest score season was underwhelming in terms of WLR. What good is high score if it doesn't bring a win?

I'd say the most eye-opening thing is the official stats by mech. Jarl's list is cool, it can encourage a player to git better, but the data isn't specific enough to reliably find factors behind one's performance, especially when playing multiple mechs of the same weight class during a season. Too easy to make wrong conclusions and overestimate correlations.

#20 JadeLight

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 02:21 AM

I try to look people up when I am talking meta with them. If they have .8 K/D I doubt I would listen to much of what they say. This shouldn't be used to trash talk. Instead, it should be used to separate reality from an overbearing ego. Padded numbers only hurt you in the end. Play what is effective ( W/L - Match Score - Survival).

Edit: If you want to play something for fun go right ahead. Just try to be cautious of bringing 9 lights into GQ and ruining other players experience).

Edited by JadeLight, 18 June 2018 - 02:22 AM.






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