58 replies to this topic

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

50 50, on 19 June 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Been a bunch of ideas thrown around over the years but nothing done.

Well, not entirely true, the maps were changed in some instances, drop zones moved, walls put in.

But that wasn't to stop spawn camping, only make it a little harder... though some might argue that the walls actually made it easier.

So there have been plenty of discussions on:

• Changing the dropship loadouts
  
• Longtomming the landing site before sending in the drop ship
  
• Putting turrets in
  
• Forcefields
  
• etc

Long Tomming the Drop Zone? I do not think I have seen/heard that suggestion yet. I like it, personally but make it animated as a series of air strikes doing old school Long Tom level damage. DZs and DropShips are precious and there's no reason why a unit's commander would not send in a flight of AeroSpace fighters to escort the DropShip and clear the DZ before 'Mech were unloaded. It also means friendlies have 30 seconds to clear out before da BOOM!

The problem is that if you have been pushed so far back that the enemy can camp your Drop Zone and they give you the courtesy of not doing so, an organized Group is probably going to fine the next choke point out and camp you there.

[MischiefSC]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 21 June 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

Long Tomming the Drop Zone? I do not think I have seen/heard that suggestion yet. I like it, personally but make it animated as a series of air strikes doing old school Long Tom level damage. DZs and DropShips are precious and there's no reason why a unit's commander would not send in a flight of AeroSpace fighters to escort the DropShip and clear the DZ before 'Mech were unloaded. It also means friendlies have 30 seconds to clear out before da BOOM!

The problem is that if you have been pushed so far back that the enemy can camp your Drop Zone and they give you the courtesy of not doing so, an organized Group is probably going to fine the next choke point out and camp you there.

Comedy gold result of the suggestion 'Long Tom the drop zone' idea -

Team A wipes Team B wave 1, Team B only moved up like 500m from their DZ and waited originally. Team A pushes to DZ. Waits outside of LT range.

Obliterates the first Team B guy to leave with focused fire because now team B has only limited choke points from which to exit their DZ into a firing line.

Dropship comes in with his next mech.

Other 11 members of Team B completely obliterated by LT shells to cover the 1 teammate of theirs being delivered.

Team that was already getting rolled now dies even faster while able to do even less damage.

I support the idea on comedy value alone.

Edited by MischiefSC, 21 June 2018 - 10:27 PM.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

Maybe I am mistaken, but doesn't every DropShip come in on a 30 second rotation? So in your example, DeadGuy1 drops and has 30secs to leave the DZ before his other 3 Lancemates (and their covering LT) come in. Even if the OpFor kills him he will either be on the DropShip, in his third 'Mech with his Lancemates (if he died in less than 30 seconds) or in a DropShip after his Lancemates have been given their 30 seconds to leave the DZ.

But as you said, it's not going to keep a team that's already being rolled from being rolled. It's just keeping the winning side from camping the spawn right at the spawn.

[Omniseed]

If anything, Dropships should only target friendly forces, to punish them for their dezgra cowardice of hiding in the dropzone hoping for mommy Leopard's lasers to keep them safe.

[Nightbird]

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5940899

[LordNothing]

MischiefSC, on 21 June 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

Comedy gold result of the suggestion 'Long Tom the drop zone' idea -

Team A wipes Team B wave 1, Team B only moved up like 500m from their DZ and waited originally. Team A pushes to DZ. Waits outside of LT range.

Obliterates the first Team B guy to leave with focused fire because now team B has only limited choke points from which to exit their DZ into a firing line.

Dropship comes in with his next mech.

Other 11 members of Team B completely obliterated by LT shells to cover the 1 teammate of theirs being delivered.

Team that was already getting rolled now dies even faster while able to do even less damage.

I support the idea on comedy value alone.

i totally support carpet bombing the drop zone to keep people from hiding there. though i really think the game should fill up the damn drop ships before dropping. at least add a longer delay between drops. theres no sense dropping mechs one at a time so they can reinforce and get killed.

[MischiefSC]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 22 June 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

Maybe I am mistaken, but doesn't every DropShip come in on a 30 second rotation? So in your example, DeadGuy1 drops and has 30secs to leave the DZ before his other 3 Lancemates (and their covering LT) come in. Even if the OpFor kills him he will either be on the DropShip, in his third 'Mech with his Lancemates (if he died in less than 30 seconds) or in a DropShip after his Lancemates have been given their 30 seconds to leave the DZ.

But as you said, it's not going to keep a team that's already being rolled from being rolled. It's just keeping the winning side from camping the spawn right at the spawn.

Yep, instead now Team A isn't taking laser fire and in a mixed engagement. They're able to set firing lines and vaporize team B in choke points that make Boreal Vault gates look sheltered and full of cover.

The only thing bombing the DZ will accomplish is wiping out the teams that refused to move up to begin with, putting them in this very situation.

The only real solution is dynamic dropzones - when you drop you drop in the one furthest from enemy mechs. However that's going to do nothing to help the guys who are so timid they didn't move up and got wiped and spawn camped to begin with. It's a lot of work that's not going to help the people who are complaining about being spawn camped. It certainly would help the rest of us who understand how/why it happens and how to address it.

That's about as good as you're going to get.

[LordNothing]

MischiefSC, on 22 June 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

Yep, instead now Team A isn't taking laser fire and in a mixed engagement. They're able to set firing lines and vaporize team B in choke points that make Boreal Vault gates look sheltered and full of cover.

The only thing bombing the DZ will accomplish is wiping out the teams that refused to move up to begin with, putting them in this very situation.

The only real solution is dynamic dropzones - when you drop you drop in the one furthest from enemy mechs. However that's going to do nothing to help the guys who are so timid they didn't move up and got wiped and spawn camped to begin with. It's a lot of work that's not going to help the people who are complaining about being spawn camped. It certainly would help the rest of us who understand how/why it happens and how to address it.

That's about as good as you're going to get.

obviously the guys getting camped are the 'let them come' types. seems as soon as some potato blurts that out the match is over. sometimes you get a team that does push out but promply gets slaughtered. the enemy goes through them and gets to their drop zone before the second wave is ready. adding features to stop this is pretty much pointless because in either case because these are players who need to learn how to take a more active roll in winning. carpet bombing is just a little bit of encouragement. it could just be a voiceover that threatens to court martial you for cowardice or demote you to a bondsman or something.

[MischiefSC]

LordNothing, on 23 June 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

obviously the guys getting camped are the 'let them come' types. seems as soon as some potato blurts that out the match is over. sometimes you get a team that does push out but promply gets slaughtered. the enemy goes through them and gets to their drop zone before the second wave is ready. adding features to stop this is pretty much pointless because in either case because these are players who need to learn how to take a more active roll in winning. carpet bombing is just a little bit of encouragement. it could just be a voiceover that threatens to court martial you for cowardice or demote you to a bondsman or something.

KCom is a W key Win key team. Berserker style charges work for us specifically because of how we play as a 12man. It's not what you always want to do by any stretch and it doesn't work elsewhere nor even for us in every situation. Sometimes you do want 1 or 2 guys to go face tank and the up 2 or 3 enemies for a bit each and get ahead that way.

However you do always want to be aggressive. Be forward of your DZ, be in a position to ensure you won't get spawn camped if things go south. You want to shoot early and often. You want to be either in a position where the other team HAS to come to you and you're in a position to slaughter them (not as common as you think) or you want to be as far forward as possible. After you're in position you want to keep pressuring the other team, usually repositioning to keep shooting them.

If you just pick a place, move up a bit and hide and don't keep the pressure on the other team will flank and/or push you and destroy you. If you're passive or timid you'll get destroyed and rolled. Really the biggest strength most teams have is the "don't be a *****" callout on comms.

Quit being a *****. Move up, play aggressive or lose (badly) to the team that does.

[LordNothing]

MischiefSC, on 24 June 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

KCom is a W key Win key team. Berserker style charges work for us specifically because of how we play as a 12man. It's not what you always want to do by any stretch and it doesn't work elsewhere nor even for us in every situation. Sometimes you do want 1 or 2 guys to go face tank and the up 2 or 3 enemies for a bit each and get ahead that way.

However you do always want to be aggressive. Be forward of your DZ, be in a position to ensure you won't get spawn camped if things go south. You want to shoot early and often. You want to be either in a position where the other team HAS to come to you and you're in a position to slaughter them (not as common as you think) or you want to be as far forward as possible. After you're in position you want to keep pressuring the other team, usually repositioning to keep shooting them.

If you just pick a place, move up a bit and hide and don't keep the pressure on the other team will flank and/or push you and destroy you. If you're passive or timid you'll get destroyed and rolled. Really the biggest strength most teams have is the "don't be a *****" callout on comms.

Quit being a *****. Move up, play aggressive or lose (badly) to the team that does.

no level of comms will fix bad builds, bad gunnery, and cowardice.

and heres the proof: get yourself a bag of potatoes and put 12 of them on the floor. now tell them to advance. observe the results. its about the same in mwo.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 June 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[HammerMaster]

A dz occupied by enemy forces is not a viable dz. Anyone with real military knowledge knows that. The dropship would not drop and move on to AN ALTERNATE dz or leave(match failure or forfeit could have been enacted at this point). Because this was not coded. Well. You got this. So even though it stinks. Rest easy that nothing will be done about it.

[BigScwerl]

Shame on CSPS for not cowering behing a hill and letting you lurm them to death.

Its not the game mode, Its not CSPS. It was your team who was not organized enough to fall back with their remaining forces and defend the LZ, which btw, is a pretty easy place to defend with only a few decent players when you have dropships coming by every 20 seconds. You will find no sympathy here friend. Come to FP with a team, or at least try and organize your pugs on comms.

[Horseman]

Throe, on 17 July 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

In any situation where the opfor has enough strength to push the "fresh" dropped 'Mechs back into their own drop zone, they would represent the largest group of 'Mechs available for the Long Tom to target, so there would be no problem there.

You're missing a small, but crucial, fact: Opfor doesn't have to walk into your drop zones in order to keep you pinned inside them.

[Fuerchtenichts]

If PGI would just use multiple drop zones, a sieged drop zone could be temporarily deactivated and all team members re-drop in an enemy free drop zone.

If your enemy splits forces to siege all drop zones you would easily outnumber them.

Would that be a suitable solution?

[Horseman]

That would work, I believe.

[TWIAFU]

Can't you just take command and move people out of the besieged DZ?

That would take a bit more battlespace awareness then most can put forth.

Then again, if the enemy is at your doorstep you have already screwed up.

[50 50]

TWIAFU, on 18 July 2018 - 04:59 AM, said:

Can't you just take command and move people out of the besieged DZ?

That would take a bit more battlespace awareness then most can put forth.

Then again, if the enemy is at your doorstep you have already screwed up.

You can change the members of one lance into another and therefore change the drop zones for those players next drop as a result of being in a new lance.
More of a side effect than a proper feature.

The game would benefit from having:

• Selectable Drop Zones
  
• Capture mechanics for drop zones.
  
• The option to delay a drop until you have a full lance.