76 replies to this topic

[Doomich]

Hey! The main mode here should be FP. QP is also cool, but FP is what we are here for!
But PGI for some reason still doesn't listen to the fantastic and really cool suggestions from the community..

[vibrant]

FupDup, on 25 June 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

Because it's preying on people who don't have a concept of the value of money.

It's not just about the raw amount of money spent, it's about the ratio of content per dollar you get. The gold mechs had a huge price but a pathetic amount of content. Huge purchases should reap correspondingly huge rewards.

Also the whole "artificial scarcity" thing to manipulate buyers was stupid, those things had technically unlimited supply (they're just pixels and lines of code that can be duplicated infinitely).

It appears you and I are looking at it differently. The way I see it, is that there is fundamentally no content per dollar: you don't get anything useful or beneficial with it, which in my view makes it perfectly OK since the only people who I can see spending money on it, are those who are effectively donating it to the game development.

Where does the preying come in, if it's clear there's nothing of any use or actual value being sold? If however, as you say, they offered huge rewards for the huge price... there comes the concern of pay-to-win. On the other hand, if you simply mean that they should offer more collectables and potentially real-world items, then I would really begin to feel that they're preying on people who don't have a concept of value of money, even if it's a better deal for those who DO have a value of money.

Edited by vibrant, 26 June 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Khobai, on 26 June 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

the reserve list prevents them from printing more black lotus

if they reprinted the reserve list WoTC would completely destroy their credibility as a company and they would lose a huge number of customers

not to mention it would create one of the biggest class action lawsuits ever and wotc would not win that lawsuit.



its not just cardboard and ink. its backed up by a promise from the company that they will never be reprinted. so in the case of magic cards the scarcity is real and they have tangible value in a secondary market.

but yeah the gold mechs have no tangible value. they were just overpriced digital goods. that you cant even use anymore if the game goes under.

the gold mechs basically just came off as IGP/PGI trying to copy what star citizen did with its overpriced ships.



yep. its a combination of artificially created scarcity and 100 years of brainwashing women into thinking they need diamonds. That and the elimination of the secondary market with catchphrases like "a diamond is forever".

its no different than what PGI did with the gold mechs. although gold mechs were a terrible investment. theres way better ways to waste $500, anyone who bought a gold mech just wasnt being creative with how to waste $500.

Oh. They have reprinted cards which they thought were gone forever. In the end, it's card board and paper. I will never buy another card again for any collectible game as I don't play in tournaments. I would just use my amazing laser printer to get what I need.

Gold mech is a gold mech. It was to support the devs. If you can't afford it. stop the whining. The people who put the money into that could obviously afford it. No need to be jealous.


NONE of what we buy in video games is actually anything. What they are selling is entertainment and what I get out of it may be different from you. Perhaps those people really did love playing their gold mechs. Hell, it was fun putting bounties on them and watching them fight for their lives. Lots of fond memories of coming across gold mechs.

Doomich, on 26 June 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

Hey! The main mode here should be FP. QP is also cool, but FP is what we are here for!
But PGI for some reason still doesn't listen to the fantastic and really cool suggestions from the community..

I think you are wrong there.

Look at the save, load and share load outs. Something we should have had a long time ago. This feature makes it easier for people to play FP and Solaris as it eliminates the need to go into mechlab each time you want to change what you are playing and how it plays.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 26 June 2018 - 02:19 PM.

[Scout Derek]

vibrant, on 26 June 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

Where does the preying come in, if it's clear there's nothing of any use or actual value being sold? If however, as you say, they offered huge rewards for the huge price... there comes the concern of pay-to-win. On the other hand, if you simply mean that they should offer more collectables and potentially real-world items, then I would really begin to feel that they're preying on people who don't have a concept of value of money, even if it's a better deal for those who DO have a value of money.

Preying comes in when one knows that the quality of the product is not worth the price that it's listed as. Common sense, understanding that the work put into the product should be valued at something less. Per se, why are you going to pay an extra couple hundred to have something painted in a different color if it isn't going to look any different aside from just some shiny paint that you can get literally from a almost similar camo that costs $10-40USD? And at that, you KNOW that it's way too much that they're charging for such a simple thing.

Let's take a look at a simple example; model kits. here I have two listed which are almost exactly the same, except one is gold leafed (AKA coated in a shiny reflective paint), and the other is plain jane.

https://www.amazon.c...m/dp/B006Q4SQS2 $37.92USD

https://www.amazon.c...m/dp/B003Y2WDAQ $24.87USD

If it was valued less, then I wouldn't have a problem. It's when you overprice something that takes minimal effort is what pisses me off. These items are valued significantly different because of the materials it took to make the two different.

In a virtual reality though, the only material different is time spent making it that way, which I imagine wasn't too hard.

TLDR; digital items do have prices, but not prices that are not equivalent to the quality and time spent making them such as so.

Edited by Scout Derek, 26 June 2018 - 03:04 PM.

[Mystere]

Scout Derek, on 26 June 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Preying comes in when one knows that the quality of the product is not worth the price that it's listed as. Common sense, understanding that the work put into the product should be valued at something less. Per se, why are you going to pay an extra couple hundred to have something painted in a different color if it isn't going to look any different aside from just some shiny paint that you can get literally from a almost similar camo that costs $10-40USD? And at that, you KNOW that it's way too much that they're charging for such a simple thing.

Let's take a look at a simple example; model kits. here I have two listed which are almost exactly the same, except one is gold leafed (AKA coated in a shiny reflective paint), and the other is plain jane.

https://www.amazon.c...m/dp/B006Q4SQS2 $37.92USD

https://www.amazon.c...m/dp/B003Y2WDAQ $24.87USD

If it was valued less, then I wouldn't have a problem. It's when you overprice something that takes minimal effort is what pisses me off. These items are valued significantly different because of the materials it took to make the two different.

In a virtual reality though, the only material different is time spent making it that way, which I imagine wasn't too hard.

TLDR; digital items do have prices, but not prices that are not equivalent to the quality and time spent making them such as so.

Why are "natural" diamonds more expensive than "artificial" ones? Can ordinary people even spot the difference?

Edited by Mystere, 26 June 2018 - 03:07 PM.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 26 June 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

Why are "natural" diamonds more expensive than "artificial" ones? Can ordinary people even spot the difference?

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up diamonds. It's an entire industry built on scamming people into spending tons of money for something that has little practical value. Comparing IGP's gold mechs to diamond industry exploitation does not help your case (assuming you're trying to defend the gold mechs, that's the implication I'm getting).

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 26 June 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up diamonds. It's an entire industry built on scamming people into spending tons of money for something that has little practical value. Comparing IGP's gold mechs to diamond industry exploitation does not help your case (assuming you're trying to defend the gold mechs, that's the implication I'm getting).

I'm using diamonds because IGP's gold Mechs are not even a hill of beans compared to them. I just don't see the big fuss at all in comparison -- especially if you saw them as helping to fund the development of the game.

Also, you forgot this part of my original response to you:

Mystere, on 26 June 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Do you think those high-end name brand products have a better "ratio of content per dollar", and that their "scarcity" is also real?

Edited by Mystere, 26 June 2018 - 03:21 PM.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 26 June 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm using diamonds because IGP's gold Mechs are not even a hill of beans compared to them. I just don't see the big fuss at all in comparison -- especially if you saw them as helping to fund the development of the game.

IGP being less bad than diamonds or whatever other industry still means they're kinda bad on their own merits.

Mystere, on 26 June 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

Also, you forgot this part of my original response to you:

For the IRL high-end products, they often have increased quality control as the justification for their cost (i.e. why Lego costs more than other building bricks).

Their scarcity can be at least somewhat real because these are physical items with an actual quantity that can be theoretically counted (but in practical terms it would be really hard to count everything of course). Even if the company chooses to only manufacture a certain low quantity (to create scarcity) that's a lot more real than IGP claiming that pixels and lines of code were limited.

[Jon Gotham]

I've said it before the issue lies with the playerbase and pgi's reading of said playerbase.
Solaris buckets are not going to be full.
>Solaris really shows up your lack of skill, there is no one to blame should you lose.

FP bucket is never going to be full
>FP requires players to be social and engage with each other, the greatest irony of the connected age. The easier it is to connect, the less players want to do it. they'll wheel out any excuse they can.

[Tesunie]

vibrant, on 25 June 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

I don't get why all the hate for the expensive gold mechs. It is 100% cosmetic, doesn't give any benefit (it rather makes you a higher-priority target), is likely to be purchased by people who have that much disposable income (they chose to buy them after all), which funds the development of the game to the benefit of everyone - including those who don't have so much money to spend. It sounds like a win for everyone to me... can you please explain?

I will say, I agree with you that it's something to just help support the game if people wanted to spend that much money (and had it).

However, I will also say that I wasn't impressed with the concept, even if I didn't mind it at the same time. But, if people wanted to throw $500 at PGI/IGP (at the time), I wasn't about to complain about it.

Don't know if I'm making sense, but basically I'm on "both sides" of the argument. I don't support gold mechs and think they where a bit cheesy (especially with the "limited" portion), but at the same time if people wished to spend the money I wasn't going to stop them...

Khobai, on 26 June 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

its no different than what PGI did with the gold mechs.

Just to be clear, gold mechs was announced as an idea purely from IGP, not PGI. If of course you believe PGI's statement, which to be honest I am inclined to believe PGI. Seen as PGI has said (and kept) a promise to never do it again...

Personally, I wouldn't care if they did it again or not. Only, I would recommend dropping the false "limited quality" portion and just let as many people who wants to get them to get them... but as stated above I also see the gold mechs as a little cheesy...

[Dagada Moor]

Damn you guys needs some vagisil.

[Yosharian]

Did anyone ask for Solaris?

[Tesunie]

Yosharian, on 26 June 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

Did anyone ask for Solaris?

Actually, over the years... a lot of people have...

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Quite a lot of people. I'm an advocate that in hindsight the initial launch of MWO should have been Solaris. Then Quick Play, Team Play, Faction Warfare being the most advanced game play offered.

HELL< I want player run leagues that are open, invite and with any restriction they want. I want hardcore pink slip matches where any equipment destroyed, is actually destroyed. It would create a whole new play style as getting within close range means costly bills for everyone.

With the saveload out feature that was dropped on us, it seems to be getting some nice side ways development. PGI needs to hand things over to the players, but still run their own divisions. Blood Bowl 2 and their player run leagues are very popular.

For MWO, the 3rd party tournaments and campaigns that have been run over the years have done more to keep people playing than anything else. This shouldn't be feared, but embraced.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 27 June 2018 - 07:36 AM.

[IllCaesar]

Tesunie, on 27 June 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Actually, over the years... a lot of people have...

Yep.

Just not really how we got it.

The current system is just kind of... bad. It's bad.

[Scout Derek]

Dagada Moor, on 26 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Damn you guys needs some vagisil.

Sorry I already used up the whole 50+ packs I bought.

[Scout Derek]

Mystere, on 26 June 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm using diamonds because IGP's gold Mechs are not even a hill of beans compared to them. I just don't see the big fuss at all in comparison -- especially if you saw them as helping to fund the development of the game.

Also, you forgot this part of my original response to you:

See here's the thing - they already had help "funding" the game:

https://www.engadget...rowd-funded-wi/

$5 Million, and on top of that, all the mechpacks and MC purchased within those 1-3 years..... I don't see that as helping the game being funded, I see that as a means of inflating their pockets quickly. IGP quickly disappeared after PGI got rid of them.

You wanna know when I take it as helping to fund the game? When I'm given reasonably priced products that don't have the false value or looks of being expensive.