657 replies to this topic

[Chris Lowrey]

First off I would like to thank everyone who has so far provided feedback in the "Addressing The Current High Alpha Damage Meta" thread. We have been reviewing the feedback and have decided that we will be moving forward with a series of Public Test Server sessions to test some of the various options presented before deciding on what will be implemented. We want to stress up front that none of these current changes are set in stone, which is precisely why we are opening them up to for public testing.

To reiterate what Paul said in his "Future Balance Discussions and Planning" thread, the overall solution that we are looking to implement is one that directly addresses the damage discrepancy between the effective alpha damage cap of 94 damage on the Clan side compared to the 60-65 damage that the Inner Sphere typically caps out at. With the intent of narrowing this discrepancy down into a state that is not so lopsided towards one faction. This does not mean that the goal is to see this cap be equal on both sides, but that the gulf that currently exists between the average Clan Alpha centric build and Inner Sphere Alpha centric build should not be as vast as it is currently in-game.

For the opening PTS, we will be testing the options previously presented to the players that garnered the most amount of direct support in the feedback thread based on the approach that the majority of players who commented on preferred:

• Providing a Clan Gauss Rifle Recoil effect.
  
• Reducing the damage on Clan lasers to have closer parity to the IS lasers.

Again, this does not mean that these changes are set in stone. We are taking the feedback that we have received to heart, and will be conducting internal tests on other options found internally and includes numbers from the community balance document that still addresses our primary goal of bringing the alpha capabilities between the factions closer together. We anticipate that we will be running a second PTS at an undetermined date to go over more options and alternative solutions that may or may not involve any of the changes listed in the previous "options" post. This first PTS will be targeted at testing the options that we have readily available at the moment. While future PTS' will be reserved for other things that we may wish to investigate at a future time.

Before we close this out, there is one bit of feedback that has been brought up in the thread that that we wanted to address. The feedback that if these changes where to go into effect, a reduction in overall damage output on the clan side, the IS side with generous defensive quirks would be too much HP to overcome in standard engagement situations. This is something that we acknowledge may be a point that needs looking into with the changes to Clan weapons. We will be keeping a very close eye on through the initial PTS testing and may introduce changes that address this point in future testing depending on the results we find from this upcoming initial PTS.

We would like to thank all of those that have provided feedback on this matter. Feel free to continue this discussion in the previous thread, as we are continuing to monitor feedback for investigations into a future PTS.

PTS I Change list:

• Clan Gauss Rifle
  
  • Small Recoil added
• Clan Lasers
  
  • Damage Reduced
    
  • Other attributes such as Heat, Cooldown, Laser Duration may be edited to account for the reduction in damage.

[Juju Shinobi]

Chris Lowrey, on 20 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

PTS I Change list:

• Clan Gauss Rifle
  
  • Small Recoil added
• Clan Lasers
  
  • Damage Reduced
    
  • Other attributes such as Heat, Cooldown, Laser Duration may be edited to account for the reduction in damage.

That's a lot of little details missing :thinking: When do we get the numbers?

Edited by Juju Shinobi, 26 June 2018 - 09:59 AM.

[Daruwind]

What about starting to use brain? Whatever is nerfed, the next item in list become META. So what about starting to buffing things?

What about buffing (ER)PPC back to being useful like -0.5 from cooldown? SPL? What about buffing Light Gauss to 10 dmg?.....

Edited by Daruwind, 26 June 2018 - 10:02 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Chris Lowrey, on 20 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

PTS I Change list:

• Clan Gauss Rifle
  
  • Small Recoil added

CAN YOU STOP KILLING PLAYSTYLES? PLEASE

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 26 June 2018 - 10:02 AM.

[McHoshi]

[Redacted] Most people did not called for any Nerf at all but for buffs.

Edited by draiocht, 26 June 2018 - 10:13 AM.
staff abuse

[Andi Nagasia]

i feel these changes are the right direction for MWO,
personally i have been asking for Clan Lasers to lose 1Damage(and some heat) for a long time,
im looking forward to this PTS, and have high hopes for the balance changes that come from it,

[Daruwind]

NO MORE NERFS!
START BUFFING THINGS FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

[Juju Shinobi]

denAirwalkerrr, on 26 June 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

[/list][/list]CAN YOU STOP KILLING PLAYSTYLES? PLEASE

This exactly, can we stop nerfing clans and INSTEAD give clans more variety? Like SPLs or SRMs because man those weapons are mostly useless on Clan side right now unless you're an LBK/ACW

[G a i s u t o]

It is a joke right? Clan Gauss crit away instantly your armor is gone...
Laser where only thing with high damage output left for the clans, to counter HIGH ULTRA HIGH USELESS ARMOR quirks of IS and still IS may have DUAL HEAVY GAUSS without problems, doing instant 50dmg...one location, one shot...

If this goes live, bye bye to MWO. Sorry, everyone will play IS Mechs then.

[HammerMaster]

ALL Ballistic SHOULD have recoil. (IS AND CLAN)
Remove charge up.
Also balance by 5v10 NOT NERFS.

Edited by HammerMaster, 26 June 2018 - 10:06 AM.

[McGoat]

The PTS is appreciated.

However, you're again looking at a very small population of mechs that deliver 94pt alpha; the MCII-DS build that does so hits 80% of it's heatcap in an alpha, with two long duration heavy large lasers. This is not something that can be used by everyone.

The 89pt HG/LL/ML Anni 1X build however can easily be used and only hits 50% of heat cap. The HG/7ML build is still an 85 pt alpha.
With IS beam duration + skill tree these are almost pinpoint.

The average laser build used by clans is between 60 and 71. The DS build that is most common puts out a 72 pt alpha.

I would seriously look at how often that 94pt alpha is used and how well they actually perform by the average player.

Edited by McGoat, 26 June 2018 - 10:07 AM.

[PJohann]

TL:DR "we want to continue our clan nerfing crusade, just cant find exact numbers that wont anger what was left of player base"

[Hellfire666]

Another stunning example of PGI "Listening to the community" ... and doing the opposite.

It's not like there wasn't a whole Balance suggestion created that could be tried. Nope, Gotta nerf everything because a couple chassis and hit 94.

[Igor Kozyrev]

Holy ****, how is this possible? Didn't they teach at the elementary game designer school that if you nerf something, at least buff something else too? If you decide to add this absolutely unnecessary recoil for clan gauss (as if anybody uses that weapon anyway), at least give something to counteract that, like bring gauss+ppc back, because you added the recoild, it's not ganna be a problem anymore, right? But naaaah, who's doing that?

Also, just a side note - recoil effect in this game is ****. It's like having a stroke, not feeling a recoil of a weapon. Go look at literally any other Mechwarrior title and copy.

Edited by Igor Kozyrev, 26 June 2018 - 10:25 AM.

[Draconis March]

McGoat, on 26 June 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

The 89pt HG/LL/ML Anni 1X build however can easily be used and only hits 50% of heat cap.

Uh... what build is this?

McGoat, on 26 June 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

However, you're again looking at a very small population of mechs that deliver 94pt alpha; the MCII-DS build that does so hits 80% of it's heatcap in an alpha, with two long duration heavy large lasers. This is not something that can be used by everyone.

Yes, I think the assumption is that the player can actually use the build.

[Bud Crue]

Chris Lowrey, on 20 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

Before we close this out, there is one bit of feedback that has been brought up in the thread that that we wanted to address. The feedback that if these changes where to go into effect, a reduction in overall damage output on the clan side, the IS side with generous defensive quirks would be too much HP to overcome in standard engagement situations. This is something that we acknowledge may be a point that needs looking into with the changes to Clan weapons. We will be keeping a very close eye on through the initial PTS testing and may introduce changes that address this point in future testing depending on the results we find from this upcoming initial PTS.

Finally, you have come up with a mechanism to allow you to achieve skills tree goal #4: a dramatic reduction of overall quirks. And that mechanism is nerfing clan gauss and energy. Can’t say as I am surprised but I will admit that the thought of the inevitable nerfs kind of saddens me.

On the other hand, your year long dedication to this goal has been impressive to watch since you stated it. I am sure the PTS...and I mean SURE as in the sun will rise in the East... will undoubtedly prove to your satisfaction that not only do defensive quriks need to be “dramatically reduced” if not outright eliminated, but that far more than just clan gauss and energy will be in need of a good nerfing, regardless of what feedback we provide; TTK must rise after all.

Congrats. I guess.

[Randal Waide]

Really? Lasers are an issue? With who?
If you want to fix something fix the frikkin’ Piranha.
I alphaed a Piranha 2 tines with 4 SRM 6’s at point blank range and he barely registered a hit.
Fix them.

[McGoat]

Draconis March, on 26 June 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

Uh... what build is this?

http://mech.nav-alph...71ba8a92_ANH-1X

http://mech.nav-alph...82e46ac6_ANH-1X

Draconis March, on 26 June 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

Yes, I think the assumption is that the player can actually use the build.

The assumption may be, but in reality 90% of the players can't use this effectively and have sub 500dmg games.

[Nomad One]

Okay, sure. Let's slap a pointless nerf to Clan gauss rifles that either ruins its use as a sniper or supplementary weapon or makes it annoying and disjointed as heck for mechs that can only bring one. Even for mechs that can only bring dual gauss its annoying, but guess they'll have to live with guns that are guaranteed to explode violently from tickle damage and having recoil shake.

Lets also homogenize clan and inner sphere lasers, sure... while leaving inner sphere survival capabilities entirely untouched for a few months after the changes, meaning a lot of less popular clan mechs are entirely forced to sedentary play styles of sniping from across the map and nothing else and everyone is forced to play an ever shrinking number of top mechs to compete as clan.

Meanwhile, let me just slap dual heavy gauss on an assault and bypass that supposed 30 damage pin point threshold no problem, or pile on enough MRM launchers to choke someones framerate while shearing off a torso just as badly as clan gauss and laser combos do.

You're not "addressing alpha damage," you're providing token nerfs to two clan weapon systems that some vocal minority is complaining about to soothe their feelings before they move on to the next thing to demand a toning down on. What's next? Pulse laser DPS is too high? ATM damage against stationary, defenseless targets too extreme?

Edited by Nomad One, 26 June 2018 - 10:21 AM.

[Colonel ONeill]

2 weeks and 2 threads later. But nothing learned.

Happy Groundhog Day

Edited by Colonel ONeill, 26 June 2018 - 10:21 AM.