463 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

DjPush, on 04 July 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

Sorry, but even the tabletop disagrees with your "should do not damage to mech armour". MGs in the TT are nasty against (unarmoured) infantry, though

And your argumentation is faulty anyway because MGs are not great against mech armour at all. They are great against internal structure. Before you go on complaining ask yourself, however, what a heavy mech would do to your unarmoured location.

Also, if you invest into survival tree and get crit reduction, then you can laugh at MGs. Try it.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 July 2018 - 07:13 AM.

[JediPanther]

I might get the laser fish just to have a decent fast clan light. A clan light that can go faster than most of their puny 97-120kph? I've ran mgs on my is lights so mgs on a clan light is pretty meh. Spider,Raven,Ember,Locust, Urbie all are my fun Rambo 2 go-to mechs. For all the fishes I never see that six mg clan Jenner. I laughed when it was announced and still laugh when I encounter one. Take every thing bad about an IS light and shove it into a clan light and then make it worse.

Enjoy the mg fish while it lasts. MG/Fish nerf is being spray painted onto a nerf hammer. I can smell it coming and I got my high speed camera ready to film that impact. Now to place bets on mg ghost heat or some other silly nerf such as mg jamming or whatever.

[Revis Volek]

EdSt0nE, on 04 July 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

Yeah I know. A fart is enough to die. But with it's speed and especially it's small scale/hitboxes I'm usually able to stay alive pretty long and get out of trouble.
I have an AWF myself but compared to the Piranha you could call it sluggish. And it's considerably bigger.

well yea, ones a medium and ones a tiny light. I would say they should not have the same profiles or movement archetypes.

JediPanther, on 04 July 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

I might get the laser fish just to have a decent fast clan light. A clan light that can go faster than most of their puny 97-120kph? I've ran mgs on my is lights so mgs on a clan light is pretty meh. Spider,Raven,Ember,Locust, Urbie all are my fun Rambo 2 go-to mechs. For all the fishes I never see that six mg clan Jenner. I laughed when it was announced and still laugh when I encounter one. Take every thing bad about an IS light and shove it into a clan light and then make it worse.

Enjoy the mg fish while it lasts. MG/Fish nerf is being spray painted onto a nerf hammer. I can smell it coming and I got my high speed camera ready to film that impact. Now to place bets on mg ghost heat or some other silly nerf such as mg jamming or whatever.

You never ran 8-12 MGs on ANY IS light because none can do it. 4 MGs is nothing compared to 12. Its not even a comparison.



In other words, if you havent tried it you really dont know lol.

Bush Hopper, on 04 July 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but even the tabletop disagrees with your "should do not damage to mech armour". MGs in the TT are nasty against (unarmoured) infantry, though

And your argumentation is faulty anyway because MGs are not great against mech armour at all. They are great against internal structure. Before you go on complaining ask yourself, however, what a heavy mech would do to your unarmoured location.

Also, if you invest into survival tree and get crit reduction, then you can laugh at MGs. Try it.

Should ALWAYS invest in survival tree, its dumb not too.

[Spheroid]

People need to get over the idea that releasing a mech for c-bills somehow automatically equals it being nerfed. They treat it like a physical law of science or something.

When did the Linebacker receive nerfs(ever)? When was the last Bushwacker nerf? Quirkless mechs like the Hellbringer certainly were not nerfed and more recently received positive quirks to specific pods.

This whole myth is incorrect and needs to be retired.

Edited by Spheroid, 04 July 2018 - 08:59 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Spheroid, on 04 July 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

People need to get over the idea that releasing a mech for c-bills somehow automatically equals it being nerfed. They treat it like a physical law of science or something.

When did the Linebacker receive nerfs(ever)? When was the last Bushwacker nerf? Quirkless mechs like the Hellbringer certainly were not nerfed and more recently received positive quirks to specific pods.

This whole myth is incorrect and needs to be retired.

I find that it correlates to fun more then good. IF it was something people are having fun in it gets nerfed. PGI doesnt understand good or bad mechs at all so if they nerf a good mech its more then likely just dumb luck.

Edited by Revis Volek, 04 July 2018 - 09:03 AM.

[dario03]

Its a glass cannon. Good dps and speed at the cost of range and armor, also somewhat ammo limited.

Its only OP if you go by the all light mechs should be weak standard. And since most of this game is one mech per pilot per match that isn't how you should balance. Yeah its better than a lot of lights (though there are other good ones for other situations) but there are more powerful bigger mechs. Especially if we are just talking about QP matches which is what often seems to be the case, and we haven't seen it in comp yet.

Need to buff weak light mechs, not nerf the few good ones.

Edited by dario03, 04 July 2018 - 09:27 AM.

[Anastasius Foht]

I found myself more often saving my slow/bad position/bad map awarness ally from piranha than get cought by it. Mech is rly nasty and punish enemy for slightest mistake in hands of decent pilot.

[FupDup]

DjPush, on 04 July 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

Oh god not this argument again.

[Battlemaster56]

DjPush, on 04 July 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

Here we go boys, we going down this road once again....

[IIXxXII]

OP I'll let you in on a little secret.

Piranhas are especially OP against builds that boat streaks. Try it.

[Weeny Machine]

EdSt0nE, on 04 July 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

I bought 3 Piranha's yesterday and Im thrilled. Never liked light mechs, never played them much.

But the Piranha with all that hardpoints, it's speed, agility and it's hitboxes is different.

It seems to be a bit too much tbh. Kinda feels like op.

You have played somewhat over 50 matches in lights mechs in the last 7 seasons. Don't take it personal but I call that a double standard when people who play heavy and assaults and hardly any lights tell the world how OP those mechs are. Play them themselves - all of the lights - and see how limited the class really is.

[razenWing]

Spheroid, on 04 July 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

People need to get over the idea that releasing a mech for c-bills somehow automatically equals it being nerfed. They treat it like a physical law of science or something.

When did the Linebacker receive nerfs(ever)? When was the last Bushwacker nerf? Quirkless mechs like the Hellbringer certainly were not nerfed and more recently received positive quirks to specific pods.

This whole myth is incorrect and needs to be retired.

There was "some" push backs on LB. There are like no push backs on Bushys. So those 2 examples are blatantly false. The last real "OP" mech that received A LOT of push backs (like complaints per customer ratio) was the KDK-3. First nerf came about the same time that it went on C-Bill.

Marauder IIC, which was not consider as OP ad the KDK-3 at the time of release, also got its first nerf around the time of C-Bill release.

There are precedents. Obviously, there are no laws. Cause, MC IIC never got nerfed despite widely considered to be the best Clan assault. Though to be fair, there aren't a gajillion tons of posts saying how MC IIC is OP and needs to be nerfed either. (truly ironic, considering the B variants can be considered to be a superior KDK-3) Maybe people learned and not to complain in detriment to their favorite toys?

Outside of the 1 exception with heavily reduced complaints, the general pattern is... when free loaders flood the market with an OP toy, it gets nerfed.

[YueFei]

DjPush, on 04 July 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

Don't be fooled by the name "Machinegun". The "MG's" in Battletech/MWO weigh as much the real-life GAU-8 Avenger autocannon mounted on the A-10 Warthog does, and that thing was definitely meant to shoot armored vehicles.

On-topic: the fact that the Piranha needs to get close to do its work means that you have every chance to shoot back at it, too. I've two-shotted them on occasion, which takes me all of about 4 seconds. I've also been embarrassingly bad at aiming at them and missed multiple shots and end up getting mulched. But it's always down to the fact that I had my chances to hit them and couldn't land the shot. Seems fair to me. The Piranha isn't overpowered, you can deal with it with better situational awareness and better aim.

[The Lighthouse]

Must. Bring. Blanket. Nerfs!

[xe N on]

Pros:
- 12 CMGs
- good hitbox
- clantech

Cons:
- bad cockpit
- MGs torso mounted (bad for brawling)
- no jump jets

[Cer6erus]

Just bought this mech. My second game with it was some 5 solo kills, 3 of which were a series of legit 1 vs 1's vs (in order) a viper, EBJ, and a mauler. I then proceeded to core out from the rear a Sunspider and an Atlas which were looking the other way, one at a time, in ~8 seconds.... My points are as follows:

No other light mech can 100-0 170 tons of mech in under 10 seconds from the rear.
No other light mech can, with ~1.5 seconds of backstab, strip off an entire ST from the rear or destroy all of the weapons carried on it.
No other light mech has ~12 DPS that is not heat limited, which only increases in damage the moment it attacks structure.
ALL light mechs face the challenge of being one shot (to those who say the PIR is not OP because it can be one shot)
Not all light mechs have the small hitboxes and 150+kph speed that the PIR does.

For the last month or so I thought PIR were the devil. Playing a heavy or assault and instantly losing a ST because even with a perfect reaction the moment you take damage you physically cant torso twist away fast enough. But I wrote it off as a once in a while, I was sloppy, kind of occurrence.

I have maybe 10 games with the PIR so far, and in ~5 of them I have 3+ solo kills... in a 20 tonner... all where the counterplay option for the enemy was literally 0. In maybe 2 out of 10 I have been one shot via streaks or dual Hguass, but both were my fault and would have happened with any other light mech. And in the rest I posted over 1000 damage with 3-5 solo kills.

The rare times I do that in a locust or my ACH, I know I played well. I aimed, strafed, kited, and hard engaged when I needed to perfectly, I earned every point of damage. The fact that you can just walk up behind virtually any mech and kill or cripple it BEFORE IT CAN TURN AROUND in a PIR is ******* stupid. I gave it the benifit of the doubt before I used it, but now I think it needs some sort of (healthy) nerf.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

That idea that mech MGs in MW are not anti-armor weapons is pure garbage. They get a BONUS vs infantry in TT, just like flamers and small pulse lasers, but that doesn't imply they suck against armor. TT MGs do 2 dmg per turn, as much as an AC2 (or a flamer), and they have much more damage potential, since AC2 only has 45 shots per ton, where MGs have 200. Imagine the salt if they had the same DPS in-game. MGs in MWO are way toned-down compared to what they could be.

Piranhas are strong, but they are high risk mechs and not a free win button. They have low cockpit visibility and low armor, and they're short range. They require either good pilots or crap-*** opponents to work well and any mistakes usually get you killed in 2 seconds flat. For every pilot out there doing a consistent 600+ dmg in a PIR, there's probably like 12 not doing 100 dmg before dying.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 04 July 2018 - 11:39 AM.

[Prototelis]

The PIR brawls really well, you can and will smash most other lights in the game.

Smedium mechs like the Assassin and Arctic Wolf can give you a lot of trouble.

Commandos usually aren't worth fighting because it is a waste of ammo. Everything else has legs that fall off at the end of your heavy small laser burn.

[Requiemking]

DjPush, on 04 July 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

Actually, they are anti-mech weapons. They were anti-mech weapons long before infantry became a thing. Their original purpose was to be an alternative to the small laser, with less damage and ammo requirements but no heat. The fact that in TT an MG does the same damage to armor as an AC2 speaks against them being solely anti-infantry, not to mention the massive increases in damage they got later on with Rapid-fire rules.

Edited by Requiemking, 04 July 2018 - 11:35 AM.

[Prototelis]

Also; if ablative armor was a real thing rapid fire weapons would be one of the best ways to deal with it.

The "BUT MUH ARMUR" crowd are the worst. Y'all just don't like having to pay attention to something that you think should be garbage.

I honestly think the Flea17 is a stronger mech, and its going to **** with the meta a whole lot harder than the PIR come cbill day. (please leave the 17 alone, its perfect)