126 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

lazorbeamz, on 08 July 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

To be fair clan small lasers are a part of clan laser vomit meta. 5 damage per 0.5 tons is 10 damage per ton. It is unparallelled. I think only the heavy medium does the same.

Im ok with the changes but the heavy medium laser seems to be hit rather badly. Maybe its still good for those damage per ton numbers on mechs like the linebacker.

In the end im happy. The game is going to shift towards brawling more and it is the best thing at this point of time.

Lol cERSL are part of the meta...

This change doesn't help brawlers at all...

You are a special kinda uninformed.

[Rusharn]

This is ridiculous, if they wanted IS and clan weapons to be the same, just open up mix tech weapon loadouts and be done with it.

[Hal Greaves]

lazorbeamz, on 08 July 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

In the end im happy. The game is going to shift towards brawling more and it is the best thing at this point of time.

brawling with what clan mech, lol.

you are woefully misinformed if you think that's an option for clans

[Shadowomega1]

Hal Greaves, on 09 July 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

brawling with what clan mech, lol.

you are woefully misinformed if you think that's an option for clans

Yea they actually nerfed the best clan Brawler when Solaris came out, by switching armor to structure and you get less quirked structure than armor (Highlander IIC-C). In fact it was nerfed twice before as they reduced the side torso armor. As for heavy clan brawler Orion IIC-C.

[MischiefSC]

Hal Greaves, on 09 July 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

brawling with what clan mech, lol.

you are woefully misinformed if you think that's an option for clans

Linebacker, Orion IIC, most the big dakka builds. Huntsman can brawl strong. LBX40 HBK is stupid strong for a medium if you don't get noticed early.

You're not going to out-punch an Anni or any of the HGauss builds but you can functionally do both with Clans. Some ACs, a couple CERMLs and then splat (MC MKII does this really well, Scorch build, etc) can start the fight beyond 300m and then close when you've done enough damage to win in the brawl.

Clans brawl fine. They're just not so flat out superior that they can just walk up, ignore return fire and blow stuff apart without any big threat like they used to. The best short range fighting mechs are currently IS, no question - the dual HGauss trio. However they're also big assaults and slow and clumsy. Run 4 heavies, expect to do badly the first wave and make it up waves 3 and 4.

[Kubernetes]

We're gonna get this crap because scrubs wet their pants over the two chassis that can pump out 90+ alphas.
Next up for nerfs: HGauss and MRMs, because reasons. By 2021 we'll be fighting with 2dmg med lasers... enjoy that TTK, boys!

[Mystere]

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 July 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

STOP THE NERFS! STOP THE MADNESS!

STOP BUYING STUFF THEN!

[SFC174]

MischiefSC, on 09 July 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

Linebacker, Orion IIC, most the big dakka builds. Huntsman can brawl strong. LBX40 HBK is stupid strong for a medium if you don't get noticed early.

You're not going to out-punch an Anni or any of the HGauss builds but you can functionally do both with Clans. Some ACs, a couple CERMLs and then splat (MC MKII does this really well, Scorch build, etc) can start the fight beyond 300m and then close when you've done enough damage to win in the brawl.

Clans brawl fine. They're just not so flat out superior that they can just walk up, ignore return fire and blow stuff apart without any big threat like they used to. The best short range fighting mechs are currently IS, no question - the dual HGauss trio. However they're also big assaults and slow and clumsy. Run 4 heavies, expect to do badly the first wave and make it up waves 3 and 4.

I don't think its just the big dual HG setups. Does any clan mech medium consistently outbrawl a BSW? Even the Vindi with its massive armor quirks does ok in brawls. You pretty much need to boat SRMs in a Pakhet or a ACW to have a shot IMO. And the number of IS heavies that have massive armor/structure quirks + good heat generation makes it tough for most clan mechs to get in close and punch with them. Maybe if we hadn't had the huge mobility quirks the Clan brawlers with bigger engines might be able to utilize that more to their advantage.

[LordNothing]

NobleSavage, on 07 July 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

I own 130 Clan and 130 IS Mechs. And I can play ALL OF THEM successfully! There just is no problem with competing against an Clan Mech with an IS Mech. So why this nerf?

I don't want a sex change surgery for Clan lasers to become a bad copy of IS lasers. In contrast to many people these days, I truly like diverseness, which means that things not only ARE different, but also that i want to preserve them that way so they will STAY different...

To claim to keep diversity while destroying it by removing their differences is lunatic or just dishonest.

i dont have anything against clan-is balance, i do have issue with the balance between various clan weapons where lasers are so good they make the superior clan autocannons look like crap. the arbitrariness of ghost heat also has bad weapon combos completely crippled by ghost heat while good combos can alpha time and time again without tripping a penalty. omnimech build rules seem to push for vomit because its damn near impossible to mount more than one big heavy weapon on most mechs because the engines are so over rated (at least have a varient or two with a different engine installed and more omnipod variety in general so were not forced into vomit builds). those are things that need to be fixed with clan and you dont need to change any balance numbers to do it.

[Y E O N N E]

SFC174, on 09 July 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

I don't think its just the big dual HG setups. Does any clan mech medium consistently outbrawl a BSW? Even the Vindi with its massive armor quirks does ok in brawls. You pretty much need to boat SRMs in a Pakhet or a ACW to have a shot IMO. And the number of IS heavies that have massive armor/structure quirks + good heat generation makes it tough for most clan mechs to get in close and punch with them. Maybe if we hadn't had the huge mobility quirks the Clan brawlers with bigger engines might be able to utilize that more to their advantage.

Or you brawl differently. An ATM boat Hunchback with a screen of more classic Clan brawl 'Mechs (e.g. Pahket with SRMs or Novas with 12ERSL going for legs) to keep the enemy off of him absolutely destroys BSWs.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 July 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Or you brawl differently. An ATM boat Hunchback with a screen of more classic Clan brawl 'Mechs (e.g. Pahket with SRMs or Novas with 12ERSL going for legs) to keep the enemy off of him absolutely destroys BSWs.

In scouting queue we consistently beat BSW brawl teams largely doing that, only instead of ATMs we just had a single laservomit Hunchie. You only need one good hit on one leg of one mech outside of brawl range to create the advantage that turns into a roll. Could probably do just as well with ATMs but they can be so feast/famine. Lasers are always laser-y.

Also, bunny hop + GTFO jump. Bunny hop to spread damage = free damage mitigation for a tiny bit of heat. If you're being focused in a Nova or Huntsman you can jump straight up out of firing arc of brawling mechs. Functionally you can completely remove yourself from fire for a full cycle, almost 2. So the enemy has to either instantly switch targets which is hard to do and stay coordinated on focus fire or waste almost 2 full cycles of fire and wait for you to land. Either way a good team with a bit of practice can do that repeatedly and consistently and win the 4 v 4s by denying the BSW/brawl team a single focusable target.

BSWs are tanky and strong in a brawl but caught at range or out-positioned they don't have any of the counters or ability to escape that Clan mediums have. BSW wins if nobody twists and it is just a direct damage vs armor engagement. Any shift away from that and they're just mediocre. HBK IIC can do almost any role and do it better than almost any other mech. Huntsman, almost as good and a bit tankier.

[SFC174]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 July 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Or you brawl differently. An ATM boat Hunchback with a screen of more classic Clan brawl 'Mechs (e.g. Pahket with SRMs or Novas with 12ERSL going for legs) to keep the enemy off of him absolutely destroys BSWs.

Interesting. Of course, I play primarily solo, so complimentary builds rarely happen. As it stands, I'd like to see Clan mechs have some more independently viable brawl builds like the IS does. I'm not asking for a brawl/tank focus like the IS currently has, just some more usable options for the clans (without killing lasers).

[Y E O N N E]

SFC174, on 10 July 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

Interesting. Of course, I play primarily solo, so complimentary builds rarely happen. As it stands, I'd like to see Clan mechs have some more independently viable brawl builds like the IS does. I'm not asking for a brawl/tank focus like the IS currently has, just some more usable options for the clans (without killing lasers).

Well, it works just fine solo; you just have to meatshield your teammates. Given that they are probably trying to fight classically, you still get your screen.

Honestly, that's the trick. Coordinated drops against coordinated drops are a different bear, but solo you can always use your friends as fodder so long as your own builds and abilities can put the enemy down before the numbers advantage turns against you.

[SFC174]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Well, it works just fine solo; you just have to meatshield your teammates. Given that they are probably trying to fight classically, you still get your screen.

Honestly, that's the trick. Coordinated drops against coordinated drops are a different bear, but solo you can always use your friends as fodder so long as your own builds and abilities can put the enemy down before the numbers advantage turns against you.

And so I must become......a dirty, rotten tryhard. Inevitable I suppose.

[MischiefSC]

QP can be a hard adjustment. Just realize that your teammates in QP are all out to get you. If you're able to carry harder, everyone wins if you help win the match using them for what they are good for.

[SFC174]

MischiefSC, on 11 July 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

QP can be a hard adjustment. Just realize that your teammates in QP are all out to get you. If you're able to carry harder, everyone wins if you help win the match using them for what they are good for.

Yeah, if you check my stats this season I'm having my best one ever, mainly because I'm going full meta heavy or assault most of the time and just doing what works instead of experimenting (as tryhard as I've ever been). I did the various events, so there are some non-meta lights and mediums in there (and I played my WHK-C for the first time), but 90% of my games are in top level mechs. I wanted to see what it would be worth - the answer is about 50 avg match score and doubling my KDR.

That said, it can be a bit boring at times, and it demands tremendous patience in some matches. So I go derp something else every once and awhile (just took out an LRM Tempest and got Polar - 980 dmg/2 kills/3 kmdd, lol - RNGesus was on my side).

[Grus]

Hal Greaves, on 09 July 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

brawling with what clan mech, lol.

you are woefully misinformed if you think that's an option for clans

It's that 12 man nova meta bro.....

[Andi Nagasia]

justcallme A S H, on 09 July 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

Lol cERSL are part of the meta...

This change doesn't help brawlers at all...

You are a special kinda uninformed.

Hal Greaves, on 09 July 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

brawling with what clan mech, lol

you are woefully misinformed if you think that's an option for clans

you can brawl with C-ERSL if you carry enough of them,
HBK vs Nova, Energy Brawlers who wins? yes the HBK has more armor,
but will it win vs a Nova, or any Like Clan mech with 10-12 C-ERSLs?

[justcallme A S H]

You won't be able to if these PTS changes make it to live...

That's the point you totally missed.

[MischiefSC]

Small lasers (every small laser) needs a little buff. Most Clan lasers could stand a bit of a damage reduction and beam duration reduction and a little heat dialing back. CERMLs at 6 would be good, bit shorter duration, 5.75 or so heat. We don't need CERLLs to again be the ultimate top tier trade weapon.

Let's see where the PTS goes. I'm just hoping this isn't what they try to send live.