36 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

I don't understand the reasoning that dual AC20s have ghost heat which more or less prevent them from being fired simultanously while the shells fly at a snail's pace while we have dual heavy gauss mechs which can fire their weapons without restriction. The charge isn't doing much to balance them imo.

So, where is the logic? 40 points of damage is a no-no-no. However, the 50 points of pinpoint damage is ok, despite it is enough to rip a light mech in half, medium mechs get crippled or destroyed as well and the whole damage can't be rolled.

Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that the AC20s' ghost heat get removed. However, two heavy gauss shouldn't be fired simultanously either - especially after the laser spam nerf (which will come for sure).

[Jay Leon Hart]

AC20 + 2 HPPC = 50 damage

- It's hot
- It has a min range
+ It can be arm mounted
+ It can use an LFE/XL
+ It can snap-shot
+ The weapons don't explode

Do we also need GH on any AC20/Gauss/PPC combo, too?

[Nema Nabojiv]

Bush Hopper, on 07 July 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that the AC20s' ghost heat get removed.

You should have. Sky will not fall to the ground if a bunch of bad mechs get to shoot short range guns with effectively missile velocity.

This wont happen of course as PGI in their infinite wisdom is about to kill clan mechs instead. Because reasons.

[Luminis]

No snapshots, no LFE / XL engines, can't be arm mounted, four tons a pop heavier, less ammo per ton, takes up more slots.

Basically exactly the same thing as an AC20, right?

[Erronius]

Luminis, on 07 July 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

No snapshots, no LFE / XL engines, can't be arm mounted, four tons a pop heavier, less ammo per ton, takes up more slots.

Basically exactly the same thing as an AC20, right?

Don't forget gauss rifle explosions and charge mechanics!

[Prototelis]

Erronius, on 07 July 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

Don't forget gauss rifle explosions and charge mechanics!

Don't forget poor velocity, almost as bad cool down, heat, worse range, and ammo explosions!

[Nightbird]

2 AC20 + 2 HPPC = 70 damage, possible with LFE, not with HGauss

[The6thMessenger]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 July 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

AC20 + 2 HPPC = 50 damage

- It's hot
- It has a min range
+ It can be arm mounted
+ It can use an LFE/XL
+ It can snap-shot
+ The weapons don't explode

Do we also need GH on any AC20/Gauss/PPC combo, too?

2x LB20X + 2 HPPC = 70 damage

- It's hot
- It has a min range
- Spread damage
+ It can be arm mounted
+ Converges better than AC20
+ It can snap-shot
+ The weapons don't explode

[Lunatic NEo]

As Clanner i`d like to have more then 30 PPFLD, but well PGI insists of nerfing me.

[Princeps Ibram Cain]

After a lot of trial and error in my Fafnir i got tired of this situation and put 1 AC20 in the left torso and, 1 Heavy Gauss in the right. 4 mlasers to backup. The combo worked perfectly.

[S O L A I S]

Bush Hopper, on 07 July 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

I don't understand the reasoning that dual AC20s have ghost heat which more or less prevent them from being fired simultanously while the shells fly at a snail's pace while we have dual heavy gauss mechs which can fire their weapons without restriction. The charge isn't doing much to balance them imo.

So, where is the logic? 40 points of damage is a no-no-no. However, the 50 points of pinpoint damage is ok, despite it is enough to rip a light mech in half, medium mechs get crippled or destroyed as well and the whole damage can't be rolled.

Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that the AC20s' ghost heat get removed. However, two heavy gauss shouldn't be fired simultanously either - especially after the laser spam nerf (which will come for sure).

You know PGI's answer to this will likely be to nerf heavy gauss and not buff the ac 20 right?

[ShiverMeRivets]

I am not a fan of dual HGR, however the problem is naturally contained - 2HGR can only be mounted on a few assult mechs that have a ballistics mount in each torso, and must be using STD engine. Some Heavies can do it too, but then they become as slow as assults except without the extra armor to support this.

After having said that, HGR can lose a few damage points, in exchage for a slighly better range, and more ammo per ton, to keep it viable in a single configuration and as a progressive "upgrade" from the regular Gauss, for most other mechs. As it stands now, 3 tons give it a huge jump in both ppfld and dps over the GR, while the recoil and short range make it a completely different weapon from the GR.

Keep the recoil, I like it.

Edited by ShiverMeRivets, 07 July 2018 - 11:13 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

S O L A I S, on 07 July 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

You know PGI's answer to this will likely be to nerf heavy gauss and not buff the ac 20 right?

Actually I could live with it. Currently it is crap that no medium or light can go near a dual HG mech without risking of being outright crippled.
Today I played my Kintaro on Mining Colony. A Cyclops went around the corner and we had to hold the line. Bamm...2 HG to the CT - about 5 armour left. I guess it would have 2-shotted me had I not run.
The problem is you cannot roll this kind of damage nor does charge much to balance it. Dual AC/20 looks like a child's toy compared to it.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 08 July 2018 - 01:05 AM.

[Lunatic NEo]

Nah, dual Heavy Gauss is fine. There are way worse Mechs around there, like ones who can dish out about 120dmg with one volley...

[eminus]

dont forget firing Heavy Gauss Rifle is like having an episode of epilepsy

[Zibmo]

Nightbird, on 07 July 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

2 AC20 + 2 HPPC = 70 damage, possible with LFE, not with HGauss

What happens to the mech that alphas this?

Right.

[Apache1990]

Zibmo, on 08 July 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

What happens to the mech that alphas this?

Right.

Roughly 52 heat, not counting reduction from quirks, which isn't the worst thing ever. But...to practically equip that armament, you have to be a 100t assault with an XL engine (unless you run a tiny amount of armor, which is just as dangerous), and heat sinking will be kinda bad as well. Probably not really practical to run.

Changing to something like 1 AC20, 2 HPPC, and 2 MLAS keeps 60 alpha (with 10 of it on laser burn), and leaves you room to fill the other side of the mech with all heat sinks, so you can fire more than 2-3 times per minute.
(Something like https://mwo.smurfy-n...a0b93ccc61c2928)

You do miss out on dual HGauss' ability to throw all 50 damage at one pixel relatively easily though.

[Quandoo]

AC20 is just a broken weapon i only use for the boom sound and fun.
AC10 is so much better.

They got weapon balance completly wrong. All weapons not pinpoint are mostly garbage even if they do tons of damage, streaks beeing the worst of all. To kill a mech you need around 200-300 missles.

HG is awesome, you just need to completly change your playstyle and positioning. Slow mechs with very low range are not easy to play. You better not expose yourself on range.

Edited by Quandoo, 08 July 2018 - 02:54 PM.

[Nightbird]

Zibmo, on 08 July 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

What happens to the mech that alphas this?

Right.

It's only 41 heat, you can alpha and then sustain with the AC20s. Most mechs will die instantly.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...dc20ec4fded0f8d

You can switch to snub PPCs if you want more heat sinks, *only* a 60 damage PPFLD alpha with no charge up.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...7f1dda90a7d0575

You can go XL with the king crab of course, but LFE is perfectly usable.

[Apache1990]

Nightbird, on 08 July 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

It's only 41 heat, you can alpha and then sustain with the AC20s. Most mechs will die instantly.

It's 52.52, the AC20s ghost heat for an extra 11.52 when fired together (not horrible all things considered, but much hotter than they would be otherwise).