52 replies to this topic

[Cloves]

DrtyDshSoap, on 08 July 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

A lot of people will tell you not to do this...But turn VOIP off. Nobody has anything constructive to say. Me especially.

On another note: Normally I wouldn't have more than two main firing groups, other firing groups are just to mitigate heat/heat management.
Another note note: When 11 other people have to watch you play, they'll often criticize everything, doesn't matter how good you do, "they can do it better" mentality. More often than not, they're people who struggle not to drool on themselves when they tie their shoes, best not to take advice from people that can't tie their own shoes. Just let the match score/damage speak for itself.

Yes, the VOIP folks are much worse when it comes to salt than us forum warriors, but having VOIP on allows me to pick Drtydshsoaps brain when we happen to be on the same side. It also lets me follow the amazing orders of Haven Kendrick, and chat with all sorts of new folks. You can always verify anything anyone says before you put it into practice. I think D is just tired of all the salt from carrying all his matches. Please leave it on, and get a mic if you don't have one, good use of VOIP really helps those of us that are less able.

[justcallme A S H]

Put it this way - You are in Tier 4. Anyone giving advice in that tier should be quite simply ignored. They are in Tier 4, afterall.

IMO your skill maze could be a lot better... Something like THIS.

1. You don't need ADV-Z for only 700m optimal. Plus I doubt you are holding burns effectively, or you'd be having 600dmg games and 3-4 kills each single game in Tier 4. ADV-Z makes burn holding harder, usually.
2. You are lacking firepower - Heat Gen. Reducing the heat each time you shoot is critical.
3. Armour is better than structure in survival tree - always. You miss the bottom 2 Armour which is the whole point of the tree, IMO. So just go left side. Most effective. Right side largely a waste.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 July 2018 - 09:20 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

You can always try what they did first, and if you didn't improved then you can just go back from what you were doing before.

justcallme A S H, on 11 July 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

Put it this way - You are in Tier 4. Anyone giving advice in that tier should be quite simply ignored. They are in Tier 4, afterall.

Don't inter-tier people mix time to time?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2018 - 10:28 PM.

[mailin]

Regarding Comms. Keep it on. Get a mic and use it if possible. Sometimes in T4 there will still be good players that drop with you. (alt accounts.) So, listen to everything on comms. If there is one player who is doing stupid stuff on comms you can always either report them (I personally doubt how effective this is, but I still do it occasionally) or mute that player. I don't have to mute people too often. Sorry that earlier posts don't find comms useful, but sometimes there is extremely valuable info that is shared on comms.

As far as weapon groups are concerned if you don't want to break up your lasers, which is good advice by the way, could possibly instead add one weapon group with all of your laser chain fired. (I do this on several mechs. If I get a light on me I will switch to the chain fire group and keep firing at their legs.)

Edited by mailin, 12 July 2018 - 03:32 AM.

[Horseman]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:

Don't inter-tier people mix time to time?

They do. He may be playing with people in up to Tier 2.

[justcallme A S H]

Tier is not really representative of "how good" someone is though. I mean at the end of the day you can have 170 average match score and make it to Tier 1... 170 Average Match score translates to... Wait for it...

• Losing more often than you win - So WLR of 0.9-0.8
  
• Deal less than 150 damage, on average, per game.
  
• Generally dying early / first by being totally out of position
  
• Being roughly around the rank of 23,000 out of 33,000 of active players... So below 50%.

Hence - realistically - there is maybe 100 people that actively use the forum that I would every say you should 'listen' to when giving advice. What you should do, is always checl JARLS LIST, simply plug the username in and see what it spits out. Now I will conceed it isn't a 'perfect' way, but it's the best tool there is to show you just how good the player is giving advice.


Of course I am one of the players you listen to if you want to 'git gud', so to speak... Now that isn't being rude or arrogant - I play for fun but I also play to win, as I find winning fun. Realistically I'm well up there these days and you can see that from Jarls List - gradually over time - I've improved in performance the last 24 seasons. Mainly from playing comp and learning from the top players in the game. The knowledge I, mostly, pass on freely to anyone that wants it where some top people might not be as active/forthcoming

Edited by justcallme A S H, 12 July 2018 - 05:44 PM.

[SilentFenris]

If advice is short, and the guy isn't being a #$@%! give it a thought. Otherwise mute them. Piloting a mech takes enough concentration...you don't need your first two teammates to be eliminated backseat driving.

Common frustrations I still see pilots make in Tier 2 matches that make it really difficult to keep my mouth to myself:
- using LRMs and PPCs within minimum range (180m/90m respectivelyfor I.S. tech)
- firing weapons beyond maximum range. typically small/medium lasers
- pilots destroying Alpha in Domination mode when the enemy timer is still full.
- the guy in the back of the team calling "push in" so his teamates can die for his greater glory.

Avoid these mistakes, don't team kill, and your teamates should have very little to complain about.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Tier is not really representative of "how good" someone is though. I mean at the end of the day you can have 170 average match score and make it to Tier 1... 170 Average Match score translates to... Wait for it...

• Losing more often than you win - So WLR of 0.9-0.8
  
• Deal less than 150 damage, on average, per game.
  
• Generally dying early / first by being totally out of position
  
• Being roughly around the rank of 23,000 out of 33,000 of active players... So below 50%.

Hence - realistically - there is maybe 100 people that actively use the forum that I would every say you should 'listen' to when giving advice. What you should do, is always checl JARLS LIST, simply plug the username in and see what it spits out. Now I will conceed it isn't a 'perfect' way, but it's the best tool there is to show you just how good the player is giving advice.

What if there's certain disagreements between people who are both above the threshold of acceptable performance? Do you just listen to the one with better stats without further breakdown or explanation, or you you examine their claims critically?

[justcallme A S H]

The6thMessenger, on 12 July 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

What if there's certain disagreements between people who are both above the threshold of acceptable performance? Do you just listen to the one with better stats without further breakdown or explanation, or you you examine their claims critically?

That's pretty rare when talking about builds/loadouts. Most advice from the top end is near enough to the same it's generally splitting of hairs. In such a case I'll simply put up what I do, and why. As do others, the overall underlying reasons though are the same. If those guys wanna go into detail they usually will and no one loses in that situation.

Ideas for the over game / balancing or some such (like adding Mix-tech and thinking it's a good idea), that's an entirely different issue and often people put up illogical ideas that make no sense, even players with reasonable records.

I mean I've evern showed players on live on stream (that have asked) to clarifiy if a build is good or bad - by showing them how to play it. No worries at all, see how/why I do things. Try replicate it or go a different route, no harm done.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

That's pretty rare when talking about builds/loadouts. Most advice from the top end is near enough to the same it's generally splitting of hairs. In such a case I'll simply put up what I do, and why. As do others, the overall underlying reasons though are the same. If those guys wanna go into detail they usually will and no one loses in that situation.

I honestly agree with most top players in how to play the game.

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

Ideas for the over game / balancing or some such (like adding Mix-tech and thinking it's a good idea), that's an entirely different issue and often people put up illogical ideas that make no sense, even players with reasonable records.

True, i agree. Mixed-Tech is just a bad idea when we're trying to put worth on ALL weapons. It would make complete sense if it were a game where certain items are SUPPOSED to be superior like Clan were SUPPOSED to be superior in TT or single-player where balance isn't supposed to be fair.

That being said, same question. Do we just flash our higher stats and uncritically address the ideas with no further explanation? Or do we at least show the idiocy?

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

I mean I've evern showed players on live on stream (that have asked) to clarifiy if a build is good or bad - by showing them how to play it. No worries at all, see how/why I do things. Try replicate it or go a different route, no harm done.

Please show why Gauss Urbie is a bad build. I dare you.

Don't get me wrong, i know it's a bad build. And i know that bad builds can sometimes have good games, and them being bad is about the inconsistency of good games. But maybe in certain cases, certain bad builds aren't fit to be played the conventional way?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 July 2018 - 06:37 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

I am in no way going to play a Gauss Urbie.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

I am in no way going to play a Gauss Urbie.

Lol ok.

To be clear though, the Gauss Urbie, with paper thin armor, can have 81 KPH and 3 tons of ammo. Did it several times before:

The6thMessenger, on 13 July 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

So i just did 759 damage with a Gauss Rifle out of an urbie. To be fair though, that's just 36 shots, 540 damage. So yeah 219 damage out of two Air Strikes.

Still out of a god damn Gauss Urbie.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 July 2018 - 06:47 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

Actually, I disagree with the comment that unless the person in question ranks really high on a leaderboard, their advice should instantly be dismissed. Being high on a leaderboard just proves that you can play the game, not that you have understood the mechanics behind it or are actually aware of what makes you successful. People could just be parroting someone elses meta build and simply play the most overpowered Mech currently active.

While other people may have a much superior understanding of the game, but due to lack of time, physical disabilities, age, etc. may never rank high.

Check any sport you like and see how many of the most successful players became coaches. And then check how successful they were as coaches. And then check the most successful coaches and then check their careers as players.

So I for one will stick with my advice of: Think for yourself. Just because something works for one person does not mean it will work for everybody. Take advice into consideration, but never blindly follow it.

***EDIT: Fixed some annoying typos.***

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 12 July 2018 - 09:44 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

As I said...

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Now I will conceed it isn't a 'perfect' way, but it's the best tool there is to show you just how good the player is giving advice.

It's not perfect. It's a good indicator

That said if you understand the mechanics you will, in most cases, be better at the game than if you did not understand them. That's just a given. Of course someone could just copy a build and play well in it. Will they do as well as a top level player? No.

And that's where Jarls is a bit of a not-so-perfect way in that there are players equal or better than I am down in ranks 300+. Why? A number of reasons.

That said if someone is in the top 3-5%, overall, they know what they are doing most of the time. Someone stuck in Tier 4 with 4,000 games does not, again, most of the time. Picking things like a physical disability is such an outlier thing that it well and truly falls under the 'not perfect' scenario.

Given what advice I see given out here on a daily basis I'm very much confident in the outliers being very, very rare occurrences.

[mailin]

I think A S H is talking about when two players disagree on comms. But, that happens so rarely I wouldn't really worry about it. Also, in the heat of battle no one is going to be able to take the time to check to see who has a higher rank. Instead, this is where common sense and experience go a long way. The first rule is stay with your lance, at least. But there are always exceptions to even that rule. So then maybe the first rule is Press R, but there are players at Tier 1 who refuse to do that. (Which makes me really upset, by the way.) There are some weapon systems or builds that just work for a particular player or play style (reference Gauss Urbie). The most important thing is have fun. But, because no one has fun losing, learn from your mistakes, and take all advice to heart, but with a grain of salt. Just because someone says to try a certain thing doesn't mean it's going to work for you. But, you can still try it, or at least think about what they are saying. Regarding any kind of ranking, that is all well and good for showing how individual players perform, but it does not show how they perform with a group. My stats suggest that I may not be the best player out there, but I try really hard to make sure that the group wins, even if I have to die early.

[justcallme A S H]

I mean mainly on the forums....

In game, if you are in Tier 4 - I honestly wouldn't be listening to anyone lol. I mean you can check someones name after the game of course if you are really interested.

I do sometimes knowing they have to be in at LEAST Tier 3 to be in games I am, and they have 150 average match score and a 0.7 KDR.

Then I just sigh/laugh/wonder all at once.

[MTier Slayed Up]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Tier is not really representative of "how good" someone is though. I mean at the end of the day you can have 170 average match score and make it to Tier 1... 170 Average Match score translates to... Wait for it...

• Losing more often than you win - So WLR of 0.9-0.8
  
• Deal less than 150 damage, on average, per game.
  
• Generally dying early / first by being totally out of position
  
• Being roughly around the rank of 23,000 out of 33,000 of active players... So below 50%.

Hence - realistically - there is maybe 100 people that actively use the forum that I would every say you should 'listen' to when giving advice. What you should do, is always checl JARLS LIST, simply plug the username in and see what it spits out. Now I will conceed it isn't a 'perfect' way, but it's the best tool there is to show you just how good the player is giving advice.




Of course I am one of the players you listen to if you want to 'git gud', so to speak... Now that isn't being rude or arrogant - I play for fun but I also play to win, as I find winning fun. Realistically I'm well up there these days and you can see that from Jarls List - gradually over time - I've improved in performance the last 24 seasons. Mainly from playing comp and learning from the top players in the game. The knowledge I, mostly, pass on freely to anyone that wants it where some top people might not be as active/forthcoming

I love and hate that tool for alot of reasons, mainly due to match making score and how it places you in what rank.

As for Tier 1...I think you have to break even at a 1.0 to climb to Tier 1, albeit, it's a slow process.
I think a .08/.09 w/l will put you in high T3 or mid T2. Could be wrong though, don't quote me. I would say that 150 being an average match making score is wrong though. It's at least 200-250.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 16 July 2018 - 12:22 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

I can 100% say that a WLR of 0.9 and 170 average match score, over time, is more than enough to take to into Tier 1.

No lies, no rubbish. Just facts mate.

AVG Match score of MWO is: 220/230 post skill maze May '17

[Bud Crue]

DrtyDshSoap, on 16 July 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

As for Tier 1...I think you have to break even at a 1.0 to climb to Tier 1, albeit, it's a slow process.
I think a .08/.09 w/l will put you in high T3 or mid T2. Could be wrong though, don't quote me.

Oh the innocence...

I have NEVER had a W/L ratio over 1. My K/D is even worse. Yet I have been T1 for a very long time and the damn bar just won’t lose color no matter how bad or how long a losing streak I may have.

Trust me you can get to T1 running provocatively bad builds (I build for aesthetics more than anything), while being a provocatively bad player (drunk, arthritic, bad reflexes, kids in the room messing about, potato machine, rural internet, etc.)

[Horseman]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Tier is not really representative of "how good" someone is though. I mean at the end of the day you can have 170 average match score and make it to Tier 1... 170 Average Match score translates to... Wait for it...
(...)
4. Being roughly around the rank of 23,000 out of 33,000 of active players... So below 50%.

I am aware of at least one player who is in T1 without ever crossing above 40%, and when I first saw him wear the T1 tag in the forums he was around 35% . Just FYI.