36 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

You can poke with MPLs and MLs and such...until the enemy pushes on you. Given that your range is already only 300 meters, give or take, that will happen incredibly quickly 99.99% of the time unless they are totally passive (which sometimes happens in QP, but I don't like balancing for stupid). At that point, you are in a brawl and in a brawl your sustained DPS and being able to maintain initiative are super important. The ~300 meter lasers suck in this environment.

No complaints here.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

However, if you give me strong MGs to pair with those lasers, now I don't have this weakness. Now I still get to blast out 40+ damage with lasers and still have 5.2 DPS with a mere four (IS) MGs...and a lot of 'Mechs have four of them. Even three IS HMGs, at 5.43 DPS, are really strong now, and even more 'Mechs have thhree ballistics (Roughnecks notable come to mind).

I still don't see much problem in that, weapon diversity is supposed to remedy such issues in the first place.

Why aren't you doing this with LMG or just MG in the first place right now? And then there's the staring which isn't that conducive to dancing within a brawl. As opposed of an AC20, you really need to stare down to put a considerable damage equivalent to an AC20.

If you're not getting this, let me put it this way. Right now, you can "brawl well" but not "poke well", because you can put MGs with your lasers right now. The only part that adds here is you "poke well" in addition of "brawl well". While sure, you had a buff to leading you to "poke well", but seeing that you can already "brawl well", then there's hardly any weakness when you said "now i don't have this weakness".

Now maybe your concern is that, you don't have to put MGs before because they don't "poke well", leaving you the weakness of unable to "brawl well", but that's not really my concern. That's your mindset hindering you because you wouldn't put MGs like LRM-tatoes wouldn't put lasers.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

So I get to poke well and I get to brawl well. I get to blast a single component with a burst of focused damage and I get to keep the enemy twisting furiously away from my light-weight, moderate-range, heatless, pitter patter. Where's my drawback? AC/20 and SRMs can't do this and AC/20 + MGs is just weaker due to laser weight efficiency.

Your drawback? Probably the stare down time that exposes your CT as opposed of being able to twist damage, and the COF of the entire MG series so you don't really focus that much compared to an AC20 at a range. While you may have put 20.8 damage on my arm (without COF factor) while staring down on your MGs over the course of 4s while lasers on cooldown, I just put an instant 20 on your CT, or select component.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

This is what you see with SRM-bombing Lights vs. MG+Laser Lights, only unbalanced because we have the tonnage to keep our big alphas along with the MGs where Lights do not.

I still don't see why you could equate AC20 to SRM-Bomb Lights, the AC20 usually necessitate a heavier mech class for that that involves a less mobile playstyle. I get that you want to convey that SRM-Bomb lights have less drawback in committing to brawls than lights with lasers, but considering that the lights already have the capacity to both laser and MG, and they can't even AC20, this might as well be a red-herring.

"poke well with MGs"? theres still the COF you gotta deal with, I don't see this much of an issue. If anything, lights need this buff. Piranha though, it needs nega-quirks.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

So I ask, again, where the AC/20 fits in your schema? What advantage does it really bring?

Short ranged poke with no COF and remember that it's at 850 Projectile speed now, brawling that allows you to deal instantaneous damage while twisting away damage. Use with SRMs for brawl, use with lasers for poke. AC20 is a brawl stand-in for Lasers while capable of maximizing poke, and poke stand-in for SRMs while maximizing brawl.

Don't like it, don't use it -- just as i barely use LRMs. That simple.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

Do it with MRMs, and now we're just being gross.

Hey, your words. But that there is exactly your problem -- you got your superior build with MRMs and MGs, you're done, yet here you are complaining.

Preference man, it's all down to preference.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

You don't understand.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

I probably have far more imagination than most on here, including you, and that's part of the problem: I can see further ahead.

Lol. K.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 July 2018 - 06:10 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 10 July 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

On what basis?

I'm at the 97.77th percentile with 7600 games under my belt, I'm pretty sure I got the hang of it.

The part with 1.1 KDR. You're an experienced player with that many games, but I don't really agree with any of your criticisms of current mechanics. It gives me the feeling you're not using them correctly.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

The part with 1.1 KDR. You're an experienced player with that many games, but I don't really agree with any of your criticisms of current mechanics. It gives me the feeling you're not using them correctly.

Criticisms like what? "Any" as in all of my criticisms, you do not agree with any of these:

Isn't the meta just basically do maximum damage with minimum exposure? This resulting into Gauss-PPC being dominant before? Vomits of various styles still dominant right now.

Am I not correct that ERPPC and SNPPC is too hot?

PPC has little incentive over HPPC?

LPPC is just too damn lame? Since when was the last time you used LPPC with great effect?

Clan Lasers just have too much damage? Isn't PGI even agreeing that they're doing something about it?

CAC are just meh and have little use?

Aren't UACs have a tendency to have monstrous upfront damage if they don't Jam? Isn't the UAC jam just too intrusive that UAC20 is looked down upon?

Isn't RAC too intrusive? RAC2 too anemic? Isn't their stare time too overkill and their velocity too low?

LGR too anemic?

Isn't the Micro Lasers just too damn weak?

C-GR op compared to IS? I mean C-GR is 12 tons while IS GR has 15 tons, don't you see any issue if there's exactly similar performance?

LBXs are kind of a down-grade because they are spread damage? Do you really get something out the increased optimal range and velocity?

What about ATMs? I mean doesn't it deal too much damage at 270m? If i could say that it's too powerful, meaning i'm getting good effect out if it by it's sweet spot, don't you agree that i actually understand how to use ATMs? Don't you feel that it's wasteful to just use ATMs at 1 damage/missile?

LRMs are actually effective at the higher ups? Are you still getting nabbed by LRMs on maps aside Polar and Alpine frequently?

Isn't short-range brawl builds like SRMs just have less incentives when people can just vaporize them from afar?

To whom do you give authority to say what is "correct"? As far as I'm concerned, we just suck it up and play around these limitations, to which people can play around limitations, and with that concern you could just invalidate any criticism, because "proper" or "correct" way in terms of how we ought to use it would always be playing around the limitation and maximizing the advantages, you can just dismiss any criticism to limitations when you just dogmatically answer "play around the limitation".

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 July 2018 - 11:13 PM.

[Nightbird]

IS ERPPC mechs have energy and PPC heat reduction quirks. IS Gauss mechs usually have CD quirk and better CD skill tree. Clan laser vomit damage that PGI is so intent on nerfing isn't actually an issue in FP. Not going to go through your list one by one but even if you're right on the item, you're not considering mitigating factors already in the game. Balance is better than at any time before, whatever PTS PGI is going to do, the final result will be a lot less IS survival quirks to compensate because Clans will be UP afterwards.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

IS ERPPC mechs have energy and PPC heat reduction quirks. IS Gauss mechs usually have CD quirk and better CD skill tree.

Specific mechs, what about the entire faction as a whole?

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Clan laser vomit damage that PGI is so intent on nerfing isn't actually an issue in FP.

Suppose that it's not, FP is still just a small portion of mwo as a whole. While i could advocate different stats with different environments, still that's just invalid reasoning.

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Not going to go through your list one by one but even if you're right on the item, you're not considering mitigating factors already in the game.

So you agree that "any" has no room for your words from the post before? Wouldn't also that make your jab at my knowledge about the uses of weapons unwarranted and uncalled for? And even if there's mitigating factors in place yet the criticisms are correct, wouldn't you agree that those mitigating factors aren't doing their things properly?

Okay sure, you're not exactly saying that i have a right or wrong criticism. But wouldn't that mean you're just evading the questions and wouldn't justify any of your responses? Basically everything you just said up to this point is just moot and brought nothing of substance to the table?

It's like saying Locust is OP, but said nothing to affirm that. How could I take your concerns seriously?

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

you're not considering mitigating factors already in the game.

I'm not considering factors already in game? Really? What factors I am not considering within the game? Quirks? Sure okay, but then couldn't we just apply the advantage in general than specific mechs with quirks?

What about RACs? LGRs? What quirks do mitigate their issues? Is there a +1 damage for LGRs?

Just to get this straight, it's not supposed to be a band-aid for current balance, it's supposed to build from the ground up and have more clearly defined borders between weapons. The current factors of mitigations would be most likely scrapped. Like the PPC quirks.

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Balance is better than at any time before, whatever PTS PGI is going to do, the final result will be a lot less IS survival quirks to compensate because Clans will be UP afterwards.

I don't know, are you aware of the "golden era of balance" in MWO? Cause that's not where we are right now. That is even on Mech Dane's video. Like Medium Lasers are nerfed for no good reason, LRM5s and SRM4s as well. Brawl builds have little incentive, Poptarting is dying and even arguably dead. When we were at the golden era of balance like before, brawl has it's place, poptarts have their place, that is in stark contrast from where we are right now.

I agree, Quirks are also a way for balancing, but why just hinge it right there? If every IS mech is going to get +30% PPC velocity, why not just give the PPC flat out +30% velocity?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 July 2018 - 07:29 PM.

[Nightbird]

And in spite of all that, I like my clan mechs and IS mechs the same. RAC2s and LGR have their niches. Etc etc... My opinion is still that you're criticizing a system you haven't mastered yet.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

And in spite of all that, I like my clan mechs and IS mechs the same. RAC2s and LGR have their niches. Etc etc...

Having niches does not mean they are adequate or powerful, it just means that they work a certain way.

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

My opinion is still that you're criticizing a system you haven't mastered yet.

To whom do you grant the title of "master"? Yourself? Or are you the giver of titles or prime evaluator of proficiency? As far as I'm concerned all you ever did is disagreed, but without substance nor demonstration, it really sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

And why do I need to be a master, couldn't I just have an adequate grasp of the mechanics? I have positive win-rate and have 7600 games under my belt don't I? Whether i haven't mastered it isn't really that relevant, I can still have an overview of said system, and I could formulate things that i like and don't depending on my conclusion.

Whether you agree to my conclusions is up to you -- and obviously you don't, and the saddest thing about it is that you wouldn't even justify why, we might as well say that you couldn't because you don't really know what you're talking about. Instead of wasting time deflecting, your time is better well spent actually addressing my criticisms.

If you're not going to contribute to the discussion properly, get off and stop wasting our time.

tl;dr

If my criticisms are invalid, put up or shut up.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 July 2018 - 11:10 PM.

[Nightbird]

If a guy take a F1 race car around the track at 100mph and starts complaining to the pit crew about the tuning, or he only microwaves mac & cheese and goes into a kitchen to lecture chefs about how to cook food. What would you say about him?

If you think you have credibility to say what's right or wrong, the onerous is on you to prove it.

To prove the Cheeta, which people thinks sucks, is good, I spent a season playing it, getting 3w/l ratio, 9kdr, and rank 6 on Jarls with it. Where's your proof that things are what you say they are other than you've dabbled in it?

Edited by Nightbird, 11 July 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

If a guy take a F1 race car around the track at 100mph and starts complaining to the pit crew about the tuning, or he only microwaves mac & cheese and goes into a kitchen to lecture chefs about how to cook food. What would you say about him?

I'd say that you're creating a false dilemma hidden in rhethorical question.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

To prove the Cheeta, which people thinks sucks, is good, I spent a season playing it, getting 3w/l ratio, 9kdr, and rank 6 on Jarls with it.

Actual proof there would demand that there's a suitable way of verifying how these numbers came into existance and showing that the results can be reasonably well replicated across the whole skill distribution curve within a proper margin of error. Until then your "proof" is just an outlier that might or might not be directly linked to your individual skill and series of actions taken to "pad" those stats..

[Nightbird]

Der Geisterbaer, on 11 July 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'd say that you're creating a false dilemma hidden in rhethorical question.

It's called an analogy and fits the current thread perfectly. Someone saying how everything is wrong when they're within 1Standard Deviation from average.

Quote

Actual proof there would demand that there's a suitable way of verifying how these numbers came into existance and showing that the results can be reasonably well replicated across the whole skill distribution curve within a proper margin of error. Until then your "proof" is just an outlier that might or might not be directly linked to your individual skill and series of actions taken to "pad" those stats..

Stats is good enough around these parts. What you're suggesting is never done around here. After all, if you take screenshots or videos, how do you prove those aren't fake? The difficulty of faking it is usually sufficient as proof. Replicate my stats with any light, I dare you.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's called an analogy and fits the current thread perfectly.

For now it's just your claim that is a suitable "analogy".

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Someone saying how everything is wrong when they're within 1Standard Deviation from average.

Considering that roughly 70% of a population typically fall within said range doesn't automatically make an expressed opinion invalid nor do those who fall into the upper 15% of the same distribution automatically have an actually superior insight on theoretical level.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Stats is good enough around these parts.

And that's why they are just as intellectually dishonest as your allegedly "perfect" analogy.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

What you're suggesting is never done around here.

Of course this is generally not done "around here", because it would taint the self-portrayal of all those who try to make an argument based on individual stats.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

After all, if you take screenshots or videos, how do you prove those aren't fake? The difficulty of faking it is usually sufficient as proof. Replicate my stats with any light, I dare you.

And your "dare" is just another intellectual dishonesty because it is still based on that incorrect stipulation that individual practical stats do actually tell the story about what a person understands on a strictly theoretical level. There certainly is some degree of correlation between displayed gaming skills and understanding the the theory involved but - as actual statistics lessons will tell you - correlation does not imply causation ... which is particularly true for the single data points like the one you just tried to use as "proof" for the Cheetah being a "good mech".

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 11 July 2018 - 08:04 AM.

[Nightbird]

ROFL

Anyways, to OP, I'm only using stats because it explains why you have the views you do. People often like their favorite weapons and ignore or blame weapons they don't perform well with. This is a normal information gap, you do better with the stuff you understand better. It doesn't mean the rest is bad.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

If a guy take a F1 race car around the track at 100mph and starts complaining to the pit crew about the tuning, or he only microwaves mac & cheese and goes into a kitchen to lecture chefs about how to cook food. What would you say about him?

You must be joking, since when did i tried to lecture an expert about his own field? Oh wait are you telling me that you're the expert? Lol.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

To prove the Cheeta, which people thinks sucks, is good, I spent a season playing it, getting 3w/l ratio, 9kdr, and rank 6 on Jarls with it.

https://leaderboard....messenger%0D%0A

Okay, supposed that it's your only account. With nothing but 809 games, 71% of which are light. How am i supposed to take you seriously when you're barely even touching a larger aspect of the game?

You're using arctic cheetah? Lol Cheetah is far from what people think to suck, the mech is meta! How does that prove anything?

That's what warglaivez is using to boost his KDR with 6x ERML backstab. I could probably do exactly the same by playing like he played, and I did several occasions with good results, but you know what that's not fun for me.

You wanna prove anything? Play a Gauss Urbanmech, and maintain your WLR.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

If you think you have credibility to say what's right or wrong, the onerous is on you to prove it.

...

Where's your proof that things are what you say they are other than you've dabbled in it?

97.77th percentile with 7605 games, do you know how hard it is to be 2 standard deviations above while having that much games? I mean i Could get 4 WLR by just having 4 games in my entire career, how does that solve anything?

I know how to play the game, I know what won't work and will at an adequate degree. You're going to talk to me about proof, yet all you have is ranking and numbers that are poorly interpreted. It's basically Argument from Authority.

My "proof"? Because I have 7605 games, positive win-lose ratio, and have a relatively distributed percentage of games playing a vast variety of chassis, on a variety of playstyles.

I have played 2357 Lights, 1673 Mediums, 1444 Heavies, 2130 Assaults, that with a positive WLR and KDR. To put that into perspective, 71% of 809 is 574 games with Lights.

You just said "I dabbled on it"? 7605 games is "dabble" on it? I have more than 3x the light games you did! That's a ******* obsession man.

Where's your proof that ANY criticisms i have said is wrong? Why don't you actually address the criticisms I put before you? Is stat-shaming really all you could do? Instead of criticizing my arguments, you're criticizing me. Pathetic.

Put up or shut up.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's called an analogy and fits the current thread perfectly.

Lol. We know what it is. No, it does not fit the current thread, our "profession" isn't different. What would have been a proper analogy is a young F1 driver showing the old F1 driver about the basics of driving.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Someone saying how everything is wrong when they're within 1Standard Deviation from average.

You must be joking. Do you even stat?



97.7% isn't within 1 SD, it's at 2 SD.

But okay sure, you may not be talking about normal distribution. And SD of MWO playerbase might be different.

What is the distribution? What was the variance and standard deviation? What was mean, mode, median? Are we looking at platykurtic, mesokurtic or leptokurtic curve? Is the curve positively skewed or negatively skewed?

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Stats is good enough around these parts.

When properly interpreted.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

What you're suggesting is never done around here. After all, if you take screenshots or videos, how do you prove those aren't fake?

Probably because other people who were in your game could call you out for it. But okay sure you could just coerce other people to not speak up when you're photo-shopping scores, or just get in a private lobby.

Then again, you could just pad your scores.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

The difficulty of faking it is usually sufficient as proof.

Then again, stat padding. Playing ACH and backstabbing people to death is an easy way to do so. And with my current proficiency now, my stats won't be dragged down. If anything it would be easier because i'd be smurfing, cause i'll be pared with entry-level players.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Replicate my stats with any light, I dare you.

Address my criticisms one by one, I dare you.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

ROFL

Anyways, to OP, I'm only using stats because it explains why you have the views you do. People often like their favorite weapons and ignore or blame weapons they don't perform well with. This is a normal information gap, you do better with the stuff you understand better.

What, is 97.77th percentile ain't good for you? If that was Z-Score under normal distribution, I'd be +2.00. 7605 ain't enough of games for you?

No, you're only using stats because you literally have nothing of substance to argue, you're just hot air.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

It doesn't mean the rest is bad.

So therein lies the problem, I never said that all of them is bad, i said that they were too homogeneous. I don't like them that way.

Here is my full list again. Stop deflecting and just address the criticisms you try to dismiss, cause that's just too damn pathetic.

Do you know why it is important to just address the criticisms instead of attacking the person? Because it cuts through the ******** and just demonstrates what you know instead of letting bias do all the work.

The6thMessenger, on 10 July 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

Isn't the meta just basically do maximum damage with minimum exposure? This resulting into Gauss-PPC being dominant before? Vomits of various styles still dominant right now.

Am I not correct that ERPPC and SNPPC is too hot?

PPC has little incentive over HPPC?

LPPC is just too damn lame? Since when was the last time you used LPPC with great effect?

Clan Lasers just have too much damage? Isn't PGI even agreeing that they're doing something about it?

CAC are just meh and have little use?

Aren't UACs have a tendency to have monstrous upfront damage if they don't Jam? Isn't the UAC jam just too intrusive that UAC20 is looked down upon?

Isn't RAC too intrusive? RAC2 too anemic? Isn't their stare time too overkill and their velocity too low?

LGR too anemic?

Isn't the Micro Lasers just too damn weak?

C-GR op compared to IS? I mean C-GR is 12 tons while IS GR has 15 tons, don't you see any issue if there's exactly similar performance?

LBXs are kind of a down-grade because they are spread damage? Do you really get something out the increased optimal range and velocity?

What about ATMs? I mean doesn't it deal too much damage at 270m? If i could say that it's too powerful, meaning i'm getting good effect out if it by it's sweet spot, don't you agree that i actually understand how to use ATMs? Don't you feel that it's wasteful to just use ATMs at 1 damage/missile?

LRMs are actually effective at the higher ups? Are you still getting nabbed by LRMs on maps aside Polar and Alpine frequently?

Isn't short-range brawl builds like SRMs just have less incentives when people can just vaporize them from afar?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2018 - 03:17 PM.

[Nightbird]

I've changed my name twice to get what I wanted in the first place, try looking up IRONNIGHTBIRD and NLGHTBLRD (I used lower case L's to look like upper case i's)



I have 14k games according to my profile. This is not important though, the WL ratio and KD ratio and Kills per match are what I look at.

WLR: 2.9
KDR: 3.8
Kills/Match: 2.44

The Kills/Match gives a feel for how much group queue you're doing with a good team, because you won't get many kills but lots of wins. I also think if you die but help your team win, is better than preserving KDR. I mostly solo queue in quick play, faction play stats don't factor in here.

I do not see myself as a great pilot though. The difference between a great pilot and me is probably as wide as from me to you. How, when you're 97.77 percentile? Because I look at Kills per match as more accurate measurement of your skill, not Match Score. I can work your stats backwards to see that you have 5734 kills, or 0.75 kills per match. That's about exactly average. A great pilot has about 4 kills per match on average and 5 WLR in solo quick play, because that's how much they can single handedly swing the match.

Edited by Nightbird, 11 July 2018 - 04:07 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

I've changed my name twice to get what I wanted in the first place, try looking up IRONNIGHTBIRD and NLGHTBLRD (I used lower case L's to look like upper case i's)



I have 14k games according to my profile. This is not important though, the WL ratio and KD ratio and Kills per match are what I look at.

WLR: 2.9
KDR: 3.8
Kills/Match: 2.44

The Kills/Match gives a feel for how much group queue you're doing with a good team, because you won't get many kills but lots of wins. I mostly solo queue in quick play, faction play stats don't factor in here.

I do not see myself as a great pilot though. The difference between a great pilot and me is probably as wide as from me to you.

How, when you're 97.77 percentile? Because I look at Kills per death as more accurate measurement of good you are, not Match Score. I can work your stats backwards to see that you have 5734 kills, or 0.75 kills per match. That's about exactly average.

So ultimately, it doesn't matter because you'll only be looking at what supports your claim then? Why only kills? I could be just cleaning up, stealing the kills. That is what warglaives was doing, he was just padding his kills, but a lot of people only see him in either an Arctic Cheetah backstabbing, or hanging back in a Cyclops and then only ever joining the fight when it's cleanup time.

Or maybe I was being cooperative with my teammates? By being the spearhead, i led the charge and led us to victory.

And where do you even get "average"? Again where is your Median, Mode, and Mean? scores like that doesn't matter when you can't reference it. Do you know what is Norm and Criterion Referencing? A 1.00 WLR might not be in the middle.

And again, how does that invalidate my criticisms? Just because some guy with better stats disagreed with me yet couldn't explain why eloquently? Stop bullshitting us, you're just shifting away from the issue.

Again, address this:

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

Here is my full list again. Stop deflecting and just address the criticisms you try to dismiss, cause that's just too damn pathetic.

Do you know why it is important to just address the criticisms instead of attacking the person? Because it cuts through the ******** and just demonstrates what you know instead of letting bias do all the work.

The6thMessenger, on 10 July 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

Isn't the meta just basically do maximum damage with minimum exposure? This resulting into Gauss-PPC being dominant before? Vomits of various styles still dominant right now.

Am I not correct that ERPPC and SNPPC is too hot?

PPC has little incentive over HPPC?

LPPC is just too damn lame? Since when was the last time you used LPPC with great effect?

Clan Lasers just have too much damage? Isn't PGI even agreeing that they're doing something about it?

CAC are just meh and have little use?

Aren't UACs have a tendency to have monstrous upfront damage if they don't Jam? Isn't the UAC jam just too intrusive that UAC20 is looked down upon?

Isn't RAC too intrusive? RAC2 too anemic? Isn't their stare time too overkill and their velocity too low?

LGR too anemic?

Isn't the Micro Lasers just too damn weak?

C-GR op compared to IS? I mean C-GR is 12 tons while IS GR has 15 tons, don't you see any issue if there's exactly similar performance?

LBXs are kind of a down-grade because they are spread damage? Do you really get something out the increased optimal range and velocity?

What about ATMs? I mean doesn't it deal too much damage at 270m? If i could say that it's too powerful, meaning i'm getting good effect out if it by it's sweet spot, don't you agree that i actually understand how to use ATMs? Don't you feel that it's wasteful to just use ATMs at 1 damage/missile?

LRMs are actually effective at the higher ups? Are you still getting nabbed by LRMs on maps aside Polar and Alpine frequently?

Isn't short-range brawl builds like SRMs just have less incentives when people can just vaporize them from afar?

Put up, or shut up. Stop with the Ad Hominems.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2018 - 04:27 PM.

[Nightbird]

You're the one who asked for stats? My point still stands, instead of everything being broken, first learn the game as it stands today. Perfectly valid argument.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

You're the one who asked for stats?

Oh okay. Fine.

Now address my arguments.

Nightbird, on 11 July 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

My point still stands, instead of everything being broken, first learn the game as it stands today. Perfectly valid argument.

No, it's not valid argument, that's a comment.

I know how to play the game, we just have a different degree of mastery.

I never said that everything is broken. I said that, I don't like them and would prefer them another way around, that's a completely different thing.

Stop with the god damn Ad Hominem, address the criticisms, or get the **** out of the thread. Else you're just derailing the thread and picking a fight.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2018 - 04:56 PM.